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A rerun of the election debate on the age of eligibility for NZ Super ignores the real costs and the real unsolved problems for both paying for superannuation and making it fair

Public Policy / analysis
A rerun of the election debate on the age of eligibility for NZ Super ignores the real costs and the real unsolved problems for both paying for superannuation and making it fair
retire

For the third election in a row, Labour is vowing to keep giving people the pension at age 65, saying the plan is affordable.  

Also, for the third time since John Key's departure, National is vowing to gradually increase the age of eligibility, saying the current system is unaffordable.   

And so the argument goes on, with little intellectual progress being made, election after election. 

But there must be more to this debate than I-say-toMAYto-you-say-toMARto.   

There should be objective facts to guide this argument, because there usually are when one person has to pay hard cash to another.   

Two facts are certain. One is that the Government is budgeting to pay $21.6 billion in superannuation for one year alone:  2023-24. A second is that the NZ Super Fund, sometimes called the Cullen Fund, currently stands at $62.4 billion.

Simple arithmetic says that means the NZ Super Fund will be able to pay superannuation for three years, and additional public money will have to fund at least 14 years more based on the average life expectancy at birth in 2018 of 82.

But the argument is far more complicated than that.  

The NZ Super Fund is not supposed to start paying out money till the mid 2030s, when its capital sum will almost certainly be far higher than it is now, so it will have more money to spend.   

One the other hand, there will be more older people to spend it on. No-one is certain exactly how big that number will be.  And their proportion to the rest of the population will vary, depending on immigration and birth rates.  

Furthermore, the whole issue is thrown intro flux by unpredictable rates of economic growth. And life expectancy will increase, but it is not certain how high it will go.     

For these reasons, actuaries run a mile to avoid commenting on the affordability of NZ Super, preferring to stick to micro issues instead, like KiwiSaver. 

Treasury, however, takes up the slack. It has written repeatedly on superannuation. Its latest forecasts indicate the NZ Super Fund will meet on average 16% of the cost of paying superannuation over the 50 years between 2040 and 2090. Adding the tax paid by the NZ Super Fund to the state, the total figure is around 20%.   

These numbers appear to be behind government assurances of affordability. 

But Ministers don't mention the other 80%. Nor do they say whether this money could be found from annual revenue or whether it would have to be borrowed. Nor is there much discussion of other problems of an ageing population, such as the healthcare costs.   

Nor is much attention given to other future risks. There could be a war, a big earthquake or another pandemic in future, not to mention climate change.

Paying the costs of these could prove too much if for state finances are burdened down with huge pension costs.

More elderly people

A pension for those aged 65 and older, NZ Super is a cash payment that is not means-tested.

Treasury has previously said the number of pensioners relative to the population at large will rise from approximately 15% of the population to over 25% by 2070. But even as it makes these projections, Treasury hedges many bets, relating to birth rates, immigration, life expectancy, interest rates, productivity and other factors.   

Braiding these multiple strands together leads to several scenarios, but they usually involve either a rise in government debt or a cut in government services. 

One large scale report on this was done by Treasury in 2021: He Tirohanga Mokopuna.    

It looked at both superannuation costs and the elderly’s disproportionate share of funding from the health service.  

It forecast total Crown revenue to remain constant till 2061 at around 29% of gross domestic product (GDP).  But total expenses would rise from 33% to 45% of GDP.  

The impact of this would push net debt up six fold to 196% of GDP. 

Treasury is at pains to say these figures are based on trends at the time and they could change. In addition, the debt figure is based on the debt-assessment methodology in place in 2021, which was changed by the Government last year. 

But at any rate, the Labour Party previously concluded that that all this would be way too expensive. So, it went into the 2014 election, saying a change to age 65 as an automatic qualification date had to be considered.

"Labour will ensure the future sustainability (of universal superannuation) and will consider options to achieve this, including raising the eligibility age," the party pledged in its 2014 manifesto.

"If this occurs, we will ensure that those who cannot work past 65....will receive the equivalent of the superannuation payment from the age of 65."

But this commitment by Labour lasted for just one election campaign. Subsequently, the party did an about face, with Jacinda Ardern mimicking Key and pledging to resign before raising the pension age from 65. 

Different for different people

One reason for the change was that Labour recognised the retirement age is not the same thing for all people.  Working past age 65 might be okay for white collar workers, but not for manual labourers whose bodies are sometimes broken by years of heavy lifting. 

“We have debated this for years,” says the president of the Council of Trade Unions, Richard Wagstaff.

“It has been the blue-collar workers and manual workers in particular, who have made it clear that at 65, their bodies are worn out, and they have to stop work.

“Life expectancy has been increasing for the average population, but people who have been working in manual labour are ready to retire at 65.” 

And there was another factor that made Labour switch tack besides the plight of older, vulnerable manual workers. This was the potential inequity for groups such as Maori and Pasifika, whose average life expectancy is lower than for Pakeha.

This means they do not get the same benefit from superannuation in the long run, even though they paid taxes during their working life to fund it. 

For the Maori Party, this issue is so critical they are insisting on a different age of eligibility for Maori compared with other ethnic groups. 

But there may be more to it than this. These problems might not be a game changer at all, despite the claims of the current Labour leadership. 

These were dealt with earlier in a comparatively nuanced policy pushed by the then deputy party leader, David Parker, for the 2014 election.  

His plan sought to alleviate the financial danger from pension costs while preserving humanitarian conditions for worn down manual workers.

"It was always recognised that different population groups aged differently," was how a a party insider puts it. 

"Maori and Pasifika have a shorter life expectancy, and manual workers also have a shorter life expectancy.

"Further work needed to be done to ensure that there was (genuine) equality across the different population groups."  

A lot of the analysis needed to develop a flexible but sustainable pension system was done by Parker.  And more analysis was planned to deal with differential Maori life expectancy. The aim was to avert a future fiscal black hole while avoiding self-evident humanitarian suffering.   

But post 2014, Labour did a U-turn and has remained unmoved by the argument that the fiscal costs of its policy would be too high.

Doubling down

And in the run up to the election, Labour is doubling down on its policy.  

“We have one of the simplest superannuation schemes in the world," the deputy leader Carmel Sepuloni told her party followers at their recent annual conference.

"It is universal and generous.  As long as we keep paying into the Super Fund it is also affordable."

The Prime Minister, Chis Hipkins, has the same message.  

“We believe with the right economic management we can fund superannuation for the longer term," Hipkins told journalists.

"But it does involve things like contributing to the NZ Superannuation Fund. 

"The Super Fund won’t fund 100% of the cost of superannuation, it was never intended to do that. What it was intended to do was fill the gap that could be created if we didn’t pre-prepare now for an increasing number of people over the age of 65."

However, critics of this position argue that the NZ Super Fund will pay for just a small number of retirees.

They say the real outcome of this policy will be an intergenerational transfer of wealth, and that from younger people who are already burdened down with student debt and high house prices.    

And anecdotally, it is common to hear young people say they don’t believe the system of state super will last, there will be nothing for them when they retire, and they had better start saving now.

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44 Comments

"They say the real outcome of this policy will be an intergenerational transfer of wealth, and that from younger people who are already burdened down with student debt and high house prices." 

NZ screwed over by the baby boomers yet again (I'm not far off being one).

The intergenerational robbery in NZ is simply prolific and corrupt.

This is the BS outcome we get when the demographic pyramid isnt rectangular and the weight of election polices favour the biggest group.

Gutless NZ politicians aren't willing to do what is best for NZ overall.

I have sympathy for those that need to retire before 65 (or whatever the cutoff might end up being) and a policy could be adopted to address it.

However, the retirement age needs to rise with average life expectancy.  

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Wouldn't worry about it, life expectancy will be in sharp decline before its a problem.

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Why do you think this?

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Another pre pubescent labour loving green ,"physco - phant" comment with the typical substanceless  basis.

Boomers have paid thier way, watched the next generations have more than they have, while pissing most of it up a wall or blowing it on drugs, iPhones and tattoos, all the while being victims of the incessant crime at one end of the scale while at the other end the spoilt brat minorities complain about their gender, their environs,  their rights and all the things the previous generations worked, and died for....  Only to see them being ruined by these "know it all"/ know nothing F wits.

But hey Mr anti boomer ... Go for It!.... Knock your self out!..   and remove the one income source you can rely on when things didn't work out the way you planned,  you're old, unemployable , and your  decrepit!

And....  You racist ass hat .. depriving the hardworking, underpaid, shortlived Maori who never make it to 65 let alone to 67 is not going to fly....

So, next time you bag your  boomer parents remember who will leave you an inheritance... That you apparently don't want!

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I don't know how it's substanceless, it's pretty basic arithmetic, when universal super was setup we had more workers per retired individual, something like a 9 of workers to every superannuant. This balance is inverting and we are trending towards more like 2-3 workers to every superannuant. It's simply not sustainable long term if people keep living longer and requiring more expensive medical treatments.

We literally cannot afford to have current workers paying ever increasing superannuation costs whilst also having to self-fund their own retirements through kiwisaver. Unfortunately there isn't an unlimited pool of resources to draw from at some point something has to give. You can scream, cry  and put your hand out much as you like but the fact is that the economy cannot properly function if over 25 percent of the population is collecting superannuation alongside other expensive services without directly contributing towards it. Unless some miraculous new technology or source of energy comes along this is the path we are on. That could very well happen but we should be planning for the course that we are on rather than assuming everything will work itself out and hand wave the issues aside.

The Australians figured this out long ago and they won't be having this problem as they have one of the world's best superannuation schemes which is self funded straight out of workers incomes, rather than ours which is a pay-as-you-go "she'll be right mate" scheme which won't be able to cope with inverted demographics. They also wouldn't of introduced kiwisaver if they thought the current system was sustainable. And we have one of the world's worst retirement savings schemes, taxed on the way in and taxed on the way out.

Left right whatever. You can whinge and cry all you want but at some point the financial reality will hit. In the long run it will be a lot better if we plan ahead rather than wilfully ignore it like you seem to want us to do by getting all overly emotional and bringing in a bunch of baseless accusations. 

Plus we've got National/Act saying they need to raise the super age as its not sustainable, and Labour/greens saying it will be fine. Who's math do you trust between those two? 

 

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"We literally cannot afford to have current workers paying ever increasing"...WFF, free child care, accomadation suppliment, free Warriors tickets,electric car subsidies...

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Which all pales in comparison to the growing cost of super. We could get rid of all that and still be in trouble with regards to growing super costs. Have a look at the spending figures and you'll see that super is far and away the largest expense, and its growing at an increasing rate. This isn't even taking into account that most of our healthcare expenditure is on superannuants, which is fine as nobody wants people to go without healthcare but long term its going to be pretty punishing on income earners as there won't be a lot left for anything else.

I don't want to get rid of super but there has to be a discussion at some point about how this revenue is gathered, as we are way to reliant on workers incomes to pay for everything, some kind of asset tax like a broad based capital gains tax or a land value tax would be the only way to keep things as they are without crippling our economy. Either that or bring in some kind of means testing, something will have to be done as the current paradigm isn't sustainable long term no matter how much we want it to be.

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"NZ Super is a cash payment that is not means-tested."

And neither can it be the way we have the economy structured at the moment. The second any form of Means Testing arrives is the second that intergenerational wealth transfer happens of a grand scale. The wealth held in the name of the parents gets transferred into the name of the children, etc. There is no Gift Duty or Capital Gains Tax or Stamp Duty etc to penalise wealth transfer. And instead of downsizing, our ageing will upscale their home to make sure it's as big as it can be to 'hide' any excess assets that go into the test (assuming the sacrosanct Family Home is Means Test free?) Or worse, the funds just 'disappear' offshore. There's a whole world of accountants who specialise in doing just that - everywhere.

So what we have may not be perfect, but it as good as many, and better than most.

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Means testing never works as the smart just hide their wealth.

This is a non topic and will never happen under labour, who has just given superanuants a pay raise.

National will change the age and stagger the change timelines to give time to the next generation to plan for it 

 

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Means testing is not difficult.

Stop bootlicking the wealthy.

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It is tested by the rules of entitlement which dictates you have to ,( from next year) live and work in NZ for 20 years after the age of 20 with 5 years after the age of 50!.

 

So it is means tested by virtue of residency / paying tax in NZ for quite a while 

 

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Needs to be longer. Paying tax for 20yrs (as the minimum) shouldn’t entitle you to a full pension. Add in healthcare costs and you may find an average worker who immigrated to nz at 45yrs potentially receives more than they gave. NZ is too generous.

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Land value tax, the least shit tax....

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Susan St John and Claire Dale advocate reintroducing a form of surtax that would discourage those who have no need of NZ Superannuation from applying for it.

https://cdn.auckland.ac.nz/assets/business/about/our-research/research-…

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Well, they would say that wouldn't they. In fact the people who have no need of NZ Super are the ones who are also paying taxes to fund for everyone else to have it - less than half  of households are net taxpayers.

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Bullshit, those on lower incomes pay gst (a tax) on most of it.

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We might have to lift the age of entitlement to match other countries. Australia at least. Or we risk getting a whole lot of kiwis coming home to collect the pension. 

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As long as they realise, they have to be continuously resident for 5 years in NZ before claiming it. Come back on your 65th birthday, and you have to wait until 70 to get it. And I guess that's about to move out to 10 years or more.

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Wrong! 20 years in NZ of which 5 years from 50yo. 

 

Come back at 65 and you only get a portion calculated on how long you resided in NZ paid at 70 if no 5 years since 50

Aussie, some Islanders, refugees  and south Korea have special entitlement rights too

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There's a dual superannuation agreement with Oz & a few other countries, not really "special entitlement rights"

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Read the rules of entitlement moron. And Mr frykberg needs to do the same!!!!!!!!!;

https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/seniors/nz-super-and-vete…

From 2024 you have an increase to 20years living in NZ to qualify. That also includes 5 years from 50yo.

So the only bludgers on super are the lifelong unemployed, an the rich  Cook Islanders etc. The rest have spent a long time paying tax in nz

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"the rest have spent a long time paying tax in nz". So as little as 10 years currently, but changing soon to 20 years. 

Edited per 100bucks correction below. I've been schooled on this one.

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If you qualify in oz you need to wait till 67 to receive NZ Super 

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Soon to be 70. It's asset tested so you may not get it until,90

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Not a lot going on in your head bro!...

Read the link. From 2024 it's 20yrs from the age of 20 with 5 years from 50.

And I don't use spell check unlike most gen Y'rs

 

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What is been ignored is that many keep working after 65 and getting the pension. With better health , and longer life expectancy , many more will continue to work on longer. So there is still extra tax been paid. Hence , the "burden " is not just been carried by the young. 

Furthermore,  with the decimation of the apprenticeship schemes in the 90's, most senior tradespeople are in their 60's and 70's , experience wise. i'd be interested to know what the average age of electrical inspectors is , for e.g. Many tradesmen keep working , because they feel there is no one to replace them. i imagine it is the same for other skilled positions. 

What is needed is a system that encourages these workers to carry on , not so much financial , but in the way of reduced hours , more allowance for health factors etc . we simply need their experience passed onto younger workers. but still have the basic pension there for those who want / have to retire.     

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It depends.  When someone retires it can open up a job position for the next person within an organization, career advancement etc.  That extra "tax" would be paid whether it's 65 year old Bob or 35 year old Steve. 

An example in our business, we have long term employees over 65 and cruising along in low gear.  They're Area Sales Managers, with full personal use company vehicles.  We had to create an extra position, surplus to our requirements, as a succession plan to prevent losing a young talented team member, because you can't just move dead wood along.  

What we need is income testing of superannuation coupled with an apprenticeship scheme run by retired tradespeople.  Pay them a good hourly wage, and exempt that income from super income tests.  

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New Zealand is a poor country.  Time to fess up to that and quit the endless squabble finding somebody else to pay for essentials, because somebody else is broke too.

Best to have a fifty year transition into a universal Kiwisaver at input rates that will pay for a retirement.

Cue the howls that we can't afford to pay for our own retirements, because when there is nobody else who can pay for you, you just have to.

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Except NZ isn't a poor country.

The Richest Countries in the World

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Australia makes the top 10, that's quite impressive. We almost fell off the end of the list, still give us another term of Labour and that should do it.

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There is a straightforward way to improve the affordability of NZ Super - linking eligibility to contribution by future generations, i.e. retirees are only eligible to NZ Super if he or she have raised at least one child. The keyword is raising a child, not giving birth. Adoption is perfectly fine if the individual cannot have children for health reasons.

Remember now that the tax we pay now does not fund our NZ Super when we retire in the future. It funds the retired today. The future generation funds our NZ Super when they grow up and when we retire.

If someone chooses not to raise a child, and therefore does not have a future generation to pay tax for NZ Super in the future, it can be argued that he or she should receive a reduced amount, or none.

Sure, the current universal NZ Super is easy to administer with no restrictions other than residency, but it is becoming less and less affordable.

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Cuckoo

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That sounds super. Just a few questions: if my kid dies before they become a productive taxpayer, does that count or do I have to have another one? Is my kid required to stay and be a NZ taxpayer for me to qualify for the pension or if they move overseas, do I lose it? Given what kids cost the state in terms of health and education, it's cheaper to import kids who will be productive right away. So can I adopt a 17 year old foreign kid and have them be 'my' kid for superannuation purposes? 

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Solo mum raises 6 kids who all end up being career beneficiaries or spending considerable time in jail.  Throws the whole notion of raising kids to pay for the future Superannuation obligations.  

Do you subtract the kids prison costs from the superannuation entitlements?  Maybe we could create a little dashboard that shows the mother's super entitlements.  Every time their child is convicted of a crime, it updates in real time.  

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Turn that around a little bit...your age of entitlement could be linked to your social credit score. Be a "good" citizen and enjoy the pension at 65...but be a "bad" citizen and...

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Yip. Totally with you bro 

A p0ints system that recognizes good behavior with great benefits and losers with none would kill off crime etc  overnite 

Assessed every week on a point system for working, not taking and no criminal activity for a start.

The benefits can be a platinum card with government subsidies on every thing from cars to potatoes....

Then every year you earn a tax reduction % reduction for Good behavior.... As well as 25% of electricity etc . 

.every ten years you get 1 years reduction off your retirement age and a extra 3 hundy per week wage increase. 

At 40 year's of good service. You can retire or be a well paid volunteer

All payed for by the savings from not having huge wastage of dollars in  Crime, prisons, police, insurance dole ...  

Now Jacinda!!!   That's being kind!

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Boy sure sounds like you’d love it in China, maybe you should move there.

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What's good and what's bad? I suppose with a communist style social credit score system, would come communist style ownership ideologies.  Will we have a Mao Zedong style land reform movement too?  Arguably debt stacking and rent seeking is not seen as being a "good citizen" by many.  

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Retirement should be self-funded.,Sad thing is the average Kiwi can’t save enough. KiwiSaver (fantastic) was a start but 3% contribution gets you nowhere. There should be a contribution from your gross income matched by the Government. And no allowance to cash in for a house deposit.

Now think of all those on benefits, WFF and accom grants they can’t afford it. Imagine the wailing from TPM about disadvantaging ‘their people.’

NZ is screwed. As I’ve said, be prepared to self fund, cover private hospital costs and live in gated communities. Going to get a whole lot worse.

 

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It is self funded thru your taxes.

If it's self funded do we get a tax refund 

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It's absurd to gift wealthy people super. Means testing is not difficult.

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Several things to consider before doing this. Example an elderly neighbour of mine who has 5 adult children use to come over and talk about them a few yrs back. 3 had gone to Aus 1 to US and one here. The 3 in Aus were doing ever so well money to burn he use to say. Spoke to him last week he wandered around so his family couldn't see him. He was fuming his 65 yr old son who had lived in Aus since the age of 18 making all this big money was now back living with them expecting to get the NZ pension and a knee replaced. The father was told not to ask questions. So my point is if you pee off to another country you can't come back wanting a hand put. Also if you work here then retire overseas you don't get the NZ pension. Along with this neighbour at 86yrs and riddled with cancer I know of several other octagoarians who still grow their own veggies scrimp and save don't waste a thing and have worked their while life. No hand outs no warm classrooms etc etc. These younger generations could learn alot if they got off their phones very few of them would know what hard work is. And as we like to compare ourselves with every other country. What do the Japanese Phillipines etc do to for their elderly they look after them with reverence 

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Why do you oldies hate young people so much?  And you wonder why Boomers cop so much hate, it's all just negative energy reflected back to the source.  

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The NZ Super scheme is brilliant public policy, effective and efficient. Intergenerational it provides the ideal platform for all retirement income planning. One of the lowest costs of all OECD countries, no alternatives match this quality legilsation

 Let other’s words speak Michael Littlewood “  New Zealand Superannuation (NZS) is one of the simplest, most effective, and most cost-effective Tier 1 schemes in the developed world. We mess with it at our peril”. Martin Hawes “NZ Super is a system so simple and cheap that we need to give people certainty and stop playing football with it. Retirement Commissioner Jane Wrightson  It is clear to me that the age of eligibility to access NZ Super must remain the same, or a more complicated system be considered to reduce the inevitable inequity such a change would bring. Any increase to the age of people accessing NZ Super will only further disadvantage women, Māori, and Pacific People. “Retired New Zealanders make valuable contributions to their communities – with NZ Super providing the means to give back through unpaid work, voluntary work and caregiving.”

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