sign up log in
Want to go ad-free? Find out how, here.

Keith Woodford reminds farmers the price of carbon is determined by Government. There lies the risk for carbon farming

Rural News
Keith Woodford reminds farmers the price of carbon is determined by Government. There lies the risk for carbon farming

Two recent articles of mine have explored the economics of carbon farming on land that is currently farmed for sheep and beef.  Those articles showed that, if financial returns are what matters, then at current carbon prices the development of permanent forests for carbon credits provides significantly higher returns than sheep and beef.

My focus there was on the close to three million hectares of North Island farmed hill country, but a similar situation exists in considerable parts of the South Island. One big exception is the Canterbury Plains, where history shows that shallow soils plus norwest wind storms wreak periodic havoc to forestry operations.

Those findings on the apparent economics of forestry lead to a series of other questions. First, how reliable is this carbon market? Second, what are all the other important things apart from simple economics that need to be considered?

In this article I am only considering the first question, which relates to the price of carbon. Even then it is only a beginners’ guide. The other matters apart from simple economics will still have to wait.

The New Zealand Emission Trading Scheme (ETS) is what is known as a ‘cap and trade’ system. That means that the Government allocates a set number of emission units which manufacturing industries must purchase from the Government to offset their own emissions. These units are sold by public auction managed by the Environmental Protection Agency.

The ETS is based on units of carbon dioxide. In common usage, these units are typically called ‘carbon units’ but the calculations are undertaken as carbon dioxide equivalents. So here I will use the common usage, but for biologists and chemists who might try to calculate these things, be aware that the numbers actually relate to carbon dioxide equivalents and not mineral carbon.

The price of the units at any time is determined according to the price where the supply and demand for credits is in balance. Companies that miss out on purchasing units must then trade with other companies that have credits for sale. Within this framework, finance companies also play a profit-driven hedging game of buying and selling units.

The idea is that over time there is a declining number of units allocated under the cap by the Government. This leads to an ongoing increase in the price to a point where some industries become unprofitable and either cease or reduce their emitting activities. In broad terms, the allocations are supposed to decline by one percent each year in the current decade, then two percent per annum in the 2030s and three percent per annum in the 2040s.

Consumers are also part of the ETS but only indirectly. For example, all of us, including farmers, are paying a carbon tax on purchased fuel.  A litre of petrol once burned releases about 2.4 kg of carbon dioxide, which here we are simply calling ‘carbon’. With carbon now selling for very close to $50 per tonne, that means that the carbon tax on a litre of petrol is approximately 12 cents.

Most industries are emitting industries but the big exception is forestry which sequesters carbon. In many situations this can be sold.

Note that the forest has to be growing. Accordingly, forests that were existing in 1989 are considered to be baseline forests and no credits are available. Forests planted post 1989 can be registered at any time in the ETS and credits claimed thereafter, but only for the post-registration growth.

Currently, New Zealand has about 700,000 hectares of post 1989 forests of which about 333,000 hectares have been registered in the ETS.  Why the remainder has not been registered is in itself a complex story. That story will need to remain for another time. My focus here is limited to land that has remained in farmland since at least 1989 and is still in that state.

New Zealand’s total gross emissions are of the order of 82 million units of carbon per year. From a national perspective, New Zealand sequesters about 27 million units of carbon from its post 1989 forests and this reduces the net headline number of emissions that New Zealand reports internationally to around 55 555 million units. However, many of these forests were planted in the early 1990s and will soon be milled. The carbon benefits from these forests are about to reduce.

Last year, there were only 6.9 million units of credits allocated to registered forests. This highlights how our national situation does not necessarily align with what is happening within the ETS.

Currently, methane and nitrous oxide resulting from agricultural activities are not included in the ETS. In time that may change. However, there are strong arguments that there are better ways to deal with the relatively short-lived methane that ruminants produce rather than to include them in the ETS.

Nitrous oxide produced by farming activities receives much less publicity than methane. However, as a long-lived gas, the long-term implications are considerable. There is a logic that nitrous oxide should come into the ETS. I expect this will be an increasing area of debate.

Agriculture is not the only sector of the economy that has major emissions that lie outside of the ETS. Many companies that the Government considers would be at risk from international competitors if they were included in the ETS, currently receive free allocations.

In 2019, the latest year for available statistics, these free allocations totalled 8.3 million NZUs spread across 85 different companies. At the current price of $50, these 85 companies are benefitting each year from this largesse by more than $400 million. 

The biggest beneficiaries of this system, with their 2019 free allocations shown in brackets, are NZ Aluminium Smelters (1,697,437 NZUs), NZ Steel (2,118,983 NZUs), Methanex NZ (1,318,490 NZUs) and Fletchers Concrete (689,425 NZUs).  Based on a current carbon price of $50, then these four big firms are in aggregate benefitting by more than $290 million.

It is remarkable how, compared to the populist chatter about agricultural emissions, these big business exemptions get little publicity.  These free allocations are supposed to reduce by one percent each year.  

At this point I return to the key question facing any farmer who is considering carbon farming: how reliable is the price of carbon? In doing so, I emphasise that this is a beginners’ guide.

Currently, the Government has a policy that the carbon price will not be allowed to drop below $20, and with this minimum rising at two percent per annum, broadly in line with inflation. Similarly, there is a maximum price set initially at $50, with this maximum also rising at two percent per annum. The Government can ensure this occurs by adjusting the number of NZUs it supplies to the market.

In contrast, the New Zealand Climate Commission has argued that the price should be allowed to rise faster.  Their thinking will have been influenced by the reality that $50 per tonne is insufficient to make a big change in either consumer or corporate behaviours if New Zealand is to meet its Paris commitments.

As just one example, at this point I go back to the topic of petrol prices where, as previously indicated, a carbon price of $50 translates to a petrol tax of approximately 12 cents per litre.  Quite simply, a carbon tax of 12 cents per litre is insufficient to change behaviours in any big way.

So, the Government is caught between a rock and a hard place.  If it holds carbon prices to $50 but with an adjustment for inflation, then behaviours across the broader economy will not change and New Zealand will not meet its Paris commitments. New Zealand would then need to implement authoritarian regulatory systems as to what people can and cannot do.

Conversely, if the Government allows prices to rise well above $50 then there will be an even bigger incentive for sheep and beef land to be converted to forestry.  

According to a recent webinar I attended, presented by an ETS specialist from the New Zealand Forest Service (part of the Ministry of Primary industries), forestry is expected to contribute about 25 million NZUs per annum in 2050. That has to come from either first rotation forests or new permanent forests. By my calculations, that will require another million hectares of pasture land to go into new forestry.

The bottom line is that farmers have to make their own judgements as to whether carbon prices will rise or fall. It all depends on how the Government manages the cap.  In other words, it all depends on Government policy and politics. 

My judgment is that the long-run price of carbon is more likely to rise rather than fall. But it is in the lap of the Government.


*Keith Woodford was Professor of Farm Management and Agribusiness at Lincoln University for 15 years through to 2015. He is now Principal Consultant at AgriFood Systems Ltd. You can contact him directly here.

We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.

Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

65 Comments

"New Zealand’s total gross emissions are of the order of 82 million units of carbon per year. From a national perspective, New Zealand sequesters about 27 million units of carbon from its post 1989 forests and this reduces the net headline number of emissions that New Zealand reports internationally to around 555 million units."

Typo? perhaps 55 million units?

Up
0

There has always been a risk of political interference that is why only eligable country that is currently in grass/weeds and is not producing significant amounts of produce or is at high risk of soil loss should be considered for permanent forest. Other than that it is the perfect opportunity to diversify land use in to productive forest for the future. Using first rotation carbon to pay for silviculture etc. The other point is with a lot of older farmers the extra passive income is of great benefit and will allow them to stay on the land and enjoy life knowing they are leaving behind a forest asset which will create on going employment in to the future. Lets face it if it all stops tomorrow carbon will be worth nothing so there will be no liability at harvest anyway. I say if you are a landowner who wants to stay, take the opportunity while it is there. The cost of keeping hard hill country in production out weighs revenue.

Up
0

In two forests I am involved with, selling only about half the carbon units from the first rotation (at considerably less than the current price/unit) paid for the silviculture, etc and covered the tax on that income.

Up
0

TwoCents
You are correct. My typo from an overactive finger. I have asked David to correct.
Keith

Up
0

Thanks for the clarification, Keith ... and the articles. Very informative. Also, I'm still smiling/chuckling over the image at the top of the article :-)

Up
0

ditto the image. Perhaps the farmers should vote for the Greens. That way they'll know the price of carbon will go up!

Up
0

Great article again,thanks Keith.
Bit confused by this bit though...

"New Zealand’s total gross emissions are of the order of 82 million units of carbon per year. From a national perspective, New Zealand sequesters about 27 million units of carbon from its post 1989 forests and this reduces the net headline number of emissions that New Zealand reports internationally to around 555 million units"

If our gross emissions are 82 million units, what's the 555 million we are reporting?
Thanks

Up
0

Yes, the 555 million is a typo where my fingers got carried away. Should be 55 million. I have asked David to correct.
Keith

Up
0

Energy underwrites money, Keith. And money is being key-stroked into existence at exponentially-increasing rates. How long do we keep trying to 'value' realities like carbon and energy, is such meaningless digital gibberish?

Have you had a good, contemplative look at Georgescu-Roegen's diagram (Wikipedia him, it's there). Hint: try looking outside the box.....

"Why the remainder has not been registered is in itself a complex story." Well, I saw this coming decades ago, planted trees on crap land (slowing a slip, collaterally) and realised early-on that claiming credits would only allow someone to do something - which might have satisfied the money-gnomes but not done a thing about reducing carbon. So I don't claim credits; it's my physical - rather than artificial/money - contribution to society/the planet. That it goes unmeasured, says a lot about the flaws in our accounting system.........

Up
0

Powerdownkiwi,
It may surprise you, but way back in the mid and late 1970s I was linked to a group at the AERU that was exploring the use of energy rather than money as a numeraire; i.e. the unit of measurement. Some energy comes free from that magnificent entity called the sun. Other energy comes from fossil entities. That fundamental difference is very challenging when it comes to defining the numeraire.
KeithW

Up
0

And others before you (actually, I think Wells goes back to 1904, not 14 - A Modern Utopia)
https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24wyty/tracing_the_concep…

It's the Joule.

No crown, but.....

Up
0

The joule is not useful because of the mix of solar and fossil.
Emission trading schemes can be seen as an attempt, albeit highly imperfect, to put a cost on fossil energy.
KeithW

Up
0

Actually, measuring emissions is even harder. This is because the trend towards Entropy is also a trend towards dissipation. It is much easier to measure a litre of fuel in a tank, than measure the carbon released to the atmosphere.

In fact, the latter, sheeted home to the perpetrator, is a near-impossible task. And sometimes, I wonder if that is why it is proposed.......

A joule is measurable. Money isn't. So I ask fundamental questions like: Agri-what? Go well

Up
0

Bitcoin provides the perfect link between energy and money/value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVym9wtopqs&ab_channel=JordanBPeterson

Up
0

Bitcoin provides A link between energy and value

Turn off the energy to the servers, and there is no value left in the bitcoin.

Up
0

That will never happen because when one server(miner) is turned off it becomes even more profitable for other servers(miners) still switched on to continue mining and it will even incentivise more servers to come on line. Additionally due to the distributed mining system its impossible to take down all servers(miners).

Up
0

Carbon farming is great for the greens and labour - removes the kulaks from the land. Ratchet up the compliance costs on the hold out farmers and bribe them with carbon handouts to get them off the land and in to town. The big end of town clips the ticket on fake meat and carbon credit trading. What's not to like - until we run out of other peoples money.

Up
0

Why would Labour /greens want farmers to move to the towns?
do you need a tinfoil hat?

Up
0

Why would Labour /greens want farmers to move to the towns?
do you need a tinfoil hat?

Up
0

Keith. I really appreciate your articles on carbon farming. My bank manager says that the enquiries crossing his desk are from smart money and farmers need to pay more attention.
I thought the NZ government can't/ agreed not to just endlessly issue carbon credits - otherwise it would just be a great revenue earner for the government with no direct effect on current behaviour.
I understood that the government has agreed to purchase those additional carbon credits required by industry in NZ above what we can generate in NZ from forestry from other markets such as Europe?
And with Europe prices at around $80-$90 tonne the NZ government would not want to be on selling them at $50 for too long so a general expectation that the cap will be lifted to closer to the Europe price.

Up
0

The European scheme is somewhat different to ours and at this stage does not include forestry. So that complicates things somewhat. Most overseas schemes involving forestry are voluntary at this stage. It all gets very complicated; hence my caveat that my article is a beginners guide. There is a lot more to be said. And I have yet to touch on post 1989 second rotation forests, including where the first rotation was not registered.
KeithW

Up
0

Really, we should be cap-and-rationing.

We should all be issued carbon credits, say monthly. Use them as you will. This gets over income disparity; although I'm sure the rich will attempt to accrue the poor's quota. But when you run out for the month, you stop. Half way to Te Kuiti...... will make some folk think..... It will reflect real Limits, realtime.

Saki Lloyd wrote two books for adolescent readership, some years ago: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4935015-the-carbon-diaries-2015

Up
0

I am a big fan of this approach - Steve Keen (I think) made the same suggestion. Basically everything would have two prices - a $NZD price and a NZCarbon price and all residents would get a universal basic income denominated in NZCarbon. This is what digital currencies were born to support!

Up
0

It's a tricky one isn't it? It is already clear that we need carbon prices to be greater than $100 per tonne to get close to our commitments, along with a significant expansion in the scope of the scheme. If this kind of increase was clearly signaled, it would change the game very quickly on carbon farming. However, this is so politically unpalatable that the Government may instead opt to let the ETS limp along as it is (meaning prices hover) whilst they ramp up on policy, regulation, and infrastructure.

Up
0

They are caretaking, no choice due to the lagging social narrative.

More and more I think about what comes next?

It sure ain't neoliberalism, it ain't this iteration of socialism, and this cohort of Greens are a wasted space. Interesting times.....

Up
0

Well life marches on - released this morning - auction ceiling price to $70 next year and $110 by 2026.
Probably coming as well reductions in units auctioned - these people are serious about action.
https://environment.govt.nz/news/release-of-updates-to-nz-ets-regulatio…

Price works - lot of moaning but it will change behavior.

Had a presentation on CO2 levels from a Professor at Vic last week collecting ice cores in Antarctica - If you cant see the evidence from the work and data they have collected in the Antarctic well you don't believe in science Im afraid - we all argue about re arranging the deck chairs and who should do what while the ship keeps sinking.
BHP has sold all its oil and gas plus thermal coal assets - no future in fossil fuels
All big car manufacturers going electric with 10 to 15 years
Wood demand expected to increase 400% in next 50 years - World Bank, Gresham House (London Fund Manager) - even if 100% wheres that coming from??

Phone of the hook now as farmers are beating down the door to plant - "sick of making no money" - thats from their mouths not mine - my view is with the rate of change occurring in 15 - 20 years the carbon price curve could easily be bending back down. The key thing to understand is the world will look nothing like it does now. I personally see permanent radiata forests as higher risk but what do I know.

Cut and dice however you like big changes are coming whether we like it or not.

Up
0

"The key thing to understand is the world will look nothing like it does now"

comment of the day, so far. You might like this:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/122689734/sustainabili…

Up
0

I don't disagree with it. I'm trying to get rid of stuff that I spent years aspiring to realize its pointless once you have it. I personally see price as the only thing humans understand its not perfect and to give this lot their due they are trying at least unlike the waffle from others. Humans seem to need to be falling down the cliff before they decide going over the cliff wasn't a good idea.

Up
0

Jack,
Those auction price minimums and maximums announced today certainly move the needle a considerable way.
KeithW

Up
0

I agree but I think we all need to realise these aren't the price. Theres another consultation out to limit who can bid or bid volume restrictions for non emitters at auction. They seem to have woken to the fact that that large funds can simply buy up volume and with hold it from the market. In reality distort the market to a large degree. I was at several meetings with MFE and Treasury a few years ago when they said this was going to be an open market - I couldn't believe it - voiced my thoughts but they didn't see a problem.
Anyway I think this hole will be closed to a large degree but the overall trend is up and from my take they seem happy to have a price between $50 to $70 - this will sort out coal for a start.
On the other hand I do see changes coming for permanent radiata forests - this maybe around stricter rules on what you have to do re management. Maybe need to get a consent from Regional/District? council once over a certain % of land etc etc. Theres a strong sense of unease in the forest industry community about these forests - much the same as farmers really, not wanting to see land that can be used for farming or timber being locked up. They have a good place for farmers I feel in hard to access/hard to farm areas but on a broad scale need to be carefully placed and managed.
Carbon along with simple demand for timber plantations is at a level I havnt seen for the nearly 40 years Ive been in this game.
My wish, and drive, is for farmers to see the opportunity here - they hold the golden goose - land - and if they can get there heads around this they can significantly increase their profitability, be the good people in all ways and still farm sheep and cattle - maybe less numbers but more profit in their hands each year. Some farms will go wholly to trees but I truly believe this could be the savior of family farming in NZ hill country.

Up
0

Jack
I agree that we can expect to see restrictions. There will inevitably be winners and losers from that. It could become a planning nightmare.
KeithW

Up
0

It will be messy Im afraid and not easy to plan around. Hopefully some rational thought prevails.

Up
0

They really do - I was so surprised. Released on a hot lockdown news day?!?

Up
0

To be fair this consultation was out a long time ago and they need to get the result out in time for it to be gazetted and into law for next year. No surprises here really as the consultation made it very clear they wanted to do this and it reflects the CCC recommendations.

Up
0

Last sentence "in the log-run..." Great pun, intended or not

Up
0

Alas, it was accidental
KeithW

Up
0

That wasn't an invitation to fix it! It was perfect as it was.

Up
0

I think it might be worth the while to land bank and earn ETS as a side income at the same time.

Up
0

You're out of your tree

Up
0

On the areas to plant the CCC wants @380,000 ha of exotic and then native only - if you read the report carefully they really want around 1 million ha of native in the next 30 years - alongside this are large reductions in GHG emissions as well.
The issue is : Where will the 1 mill ha for native come from?
It doesn't pay financially - is hard to achieve and V V expensive with V high risk of failure. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea but the reality is the landowners - farmers on Class 6,7,8 land aren't exactly falling over themselves to do this which I understand.
The question to ask is - what happens if we don't get the native planted ?
2 choices as I see it
Further reduce GHG emissions - the most sensible thing to do
or
Plant more exotic trees - not ideal in terms of Climate change outcomes in a long term plan but cheaper.
In effect to achieve the plan the CCC has (right or wrong as it is) they cant afford the exotic planting rate of 380k to be missed - that would be a real disaster for the plan.
As such with an almost impossible native target, an already hard exotic target (labour, seedlings etc) and growing urgency to reduce emissions the carbon price will go/stay higher for a period of time.
As per my other post I do see though that change in technology will over time wash away fossil fuels. I don't know if its 10 years or 20 years to see the curve bend but I'm pretty sure if we haven't made a big dent in 20 years in emissions and offsets carbon price, landuse discussion etc will be the least of our problems - we dont really have a choice - unless you don't believe in science.

Up
0

Good post. Had you seen the Herrington Thesis?
https://www.consulting.us/news/6450/kpmgs-gaya-herrington-affirms-esgs-…
https://advisory.kpmg.us/articles/2021/limits-to-growth.html

I don't think we have 30, 20 or even 10........ Which is just as well, because an economic collapse might - just - save us from being fried.

Up
0

I have read a bit of this elsewhere. To me it shows we can change and adapt - it might seem a major change but I sometimes feel we don't quite realize how much we have changed anyway - not for the better always!!
Many things have improved from the past but we seem very scared of doing away with some things - smoking, seat belts - I remember the uproar when these were banned or had to be worn. The world was going to end - it got healthier and safer.
As a species we can adapt and the thought is more terrifying than the reality - as an eternal optimist I believe if we provide options or price the bad ones out we will find it not so bad and it becomes the norm.
Its a bit like lockdown - not easy for all but many people I know have commented how nice it is to slow down and realize you don't need to fly around the world, make do with whats available etc.
Maybe I'm being idealistic and naïve!!!

Up
0

Certainly idealistic and naive if you think you can change the climate back to the little ice age.

It is patently immoral to suck $110/t out of the NZ economy to plan trees here when it could be done in the tropics for $2-10/tonne. We could be 'carbon zero' tomorrow for $600 million/annum - a fraction of the cost of $110/t and far faster than sitting around waiting for a temperate tree to grow. It is telling that the climate zealots don’t go for the quickest, cheapest option to get ‘carbon zero’ but instead embark on grandiose social engineering boondoggles paid for by other peoples money. When will the zealots start acting like it is the emergency they claim it to be?

Given pruned stands, and entire farms, within 100km of ports currently being locked up with key thrown away at $48/t what perverse outcomes will be happening at $110/t? What is going to replace the export revenue from timber exports and farming now that it is being priced out of the market by an artificial government diktat? The people that grow stuff for export revenue will be replaced by landed gentry carbon bludgers.

Up
0

Reported - and not for the first time.

Suggests 'moral', then advocates offshoring. Which is colonialism by any other name. Not as bad as the vertical colonialism we are indulging in (stealing from every future generation) but still stealing from someone. We've done this to the Third World via the WTO, the World Bank, the IMF, via militarism and bullying; we've supported corrupt regimes - put them in place even. Time we stood on our own feet, not on the heads of others.

Up
0

Get grip PDK - if you really are concerned about CO2 there are far cheaper and effective ways of going about it than pines tree boondoggles in the paddock next door. Do you not want NZ to be 'carbon zero' tomorrow? Is it an emergency or not?
'Just 5% of the world’s power plants account for almost three-quarters of carbon emissions from electricity generation.'
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01983-z

Up
0

You will note Im not against controls on permanent radiata forests. Apart from that there will also be limits on the amount of radiata forest full stop - 380k ha? I don't know when but its going to take over a decade to get there. At these carbon prices farmers should be planting (lots are and by the calls I got yesterday many more will) - they will be the beneficiaries - fighting against something that drastically improves families lives on the land is hard to fathom as theres no sign the status quo will allow people to survive long term even in the world as it is now. Ive commented on the topics and many countries are trying but its not easy - if it was they would be going full steam ahead. Trees are a bit of a red herring really - at $110 - remember this is a price band not a target - it will more importantly induce change - coal will be gone in 5 to 8 years never to return etc etc. Nothing will go back to what it was but if we travel on the road we are now its not good - we have to go to a new destination - it won't be what it was 200 years ago - we are trying to just stop it warming anymore - not lower the dam - thats another day. Why do we not want a world with less pollution, droughts, storms etc??

Up
0

These higher carbon prices effectively make permanent radiata forest already. Mum/Dad sells all the carbon credits and buys a boat, car and bach with the proceeds, leaving the son/daughter with a radiata ball and chain on the farm with endless fencing costs. Do you not agree that people locking up pruned stands today is a perverse outcome - which will only be exacerbated by higher carbon prices? No export income, no forestry jobs and severely limiting the options of the next generation for that piece of land.
Drastically improves families lives - I'm not convinced that the lives of people in Kaingaroa village, Murupara have been aided by mass pine tree planting.

Who doesn't want a world with storms and droughts but the evidence this is occurring is weak at best and the best way to cope with these events is by making NZ wealthier not carbon slush funds - 'Since 1990 the world has seen a decrease in overall and weather-related disaster losses as a proportion of global GDP. This trend has occurred even as disaster losses have increased in absolute terms. The primary factor driving the overall increase in disaster losses is societal, mainly growth in populations and settlements at risk to the consequences of extreme events (IPCC, 2012). While some weather and climate extremes are expected to increase in frequency and/or intensity in the future, to date there is not strong evidence of such increases in tropical cyclones, floods, drought or tornadoes on climate time scales (IPCC, 2018; Pielke, 2018).'
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17477891.2018.1540343?journ…
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/heat-wave-index-usa

Up
0

but the evidence this is occurring is weak at best

I've come across this one before - kindly quote the LATEST IPCC report, do not regurgitate cherry-picked (by FF-paid think-tank staff) ancient utterings.

I once potter a Planner all the way to Ministerial level, for trying to quote a draft form of a Regional Plan (the Operational form wouldn't have supported him; he went ultra-vires under pressure from all the then L.A.s; was funny as a fight). That was over 30 years ago - funny how some types never change.

Up
0

Environmental Hazards Journal isn't a think tank nor is ourworldindata.org. If you think two years ( ancient!) is going to make a difference to human attribution signal you are mistaken. Given the globe is greening and we are producing more food than ever I'm not sure why we should be wringing our hands about droughts.
'Depending on the global climate model(s) underpinning the projection, emergence timescales range between 120 and 550 years, reflecting a large uncertainty. It takes 260 years for an 18-model ensemble-based signal to emerge. Consequently, under the projections examined here, the detection or attribution of an anthropogenic signal in tropical cyclone loss data is extremely unlikely to occur over periods of several decades (and even longer). This caution extends more generally to global weather-related natural disaster losses.'
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/6/1/014003/meta
https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/environmental-hazards

Greening of the Earth and its drivers
https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3004

Up
0

Kaingaroa Village and Murupara wouldn't even have existed if there hadn't been mass pine tree planting. The land was considered useless for pasture because of 'bush sickness' (cobalt deficiency). A lot of families made a home there and from most accounts were happy to do so.

Up
0

This was quite an interesting and informative thread until profile showed up with his misdirection. I don't really want to play whack-a-mole, but REDD+ is the scheme which compensates developing countries for not reducing emissions from deforestation and forest degradation. Profile could perhaps donate some money? Pruned stands won't be locked up at current log prices, most have already been harvested. Agricultural and forest products will always be exported.

Up
0

SimonP - pruned stands were being locked up when export prices were at record levels just a few months back - that is only going to increase and no their forest products won't be exported - as their owners are taking the carbon cash and running. Why shag around with harvesting when you can just carbon bludge and virtue signal with other peoples money? Not like NZ needs the cash for healthcare or anything. Maybe you could just donate to these land owners and leave me out of it?
No, there are plenty of pruned stands still out there, around 45% still being pruned. Surprised someone commenting on NZ forestry doesn't know this.
REDD+ don't make me laugh - have a google about REDD+ and corruption.
Muruapara was around before pines were planted or even bush sickness identified - sorry that you were misdirected about this.

Up
0

Jack, just wanted to say thanks for all your comments on the forestry articles, which are a good complement to Keith's data and interpretation. Really interesting to hear from someone in the thick of it. Keep em coming. Reminds me of AndrewsJ's "tales from the farm" before he got banned.

Up
0

Keiths articles are really good and he explains it well. Its excellent to have someone from outside the game to cast a different eye and good critical thought over it. Nothings ever perfect and different perspectives make everyone think. I hope Im not to radical to be banned!!!

Up
0

I think the 5 metre height makes it hard to go native. It rules out Manuka , an ideal bio fuel , but i presume the less hardy Kanuka would qualify.
the quick(er) and hardy(er) pittosporums and coprosmas(repens and grandifolia just make the height). These are all your colonisers , which bring in native birds to drop your seeds for more trees . Ideal nurse crops , such as tree lucerne , can just make 5 metres , in ideal conditions.
I guess you could use exotics to make your 30 % canopy cover , and plant natives in the rest of the area???

Up
0

I have been looking around our area at naturally regenerating bush and have become interested in Rewarewa as it seems to grow reasonably quickly has good joinery type timber and is wind firm. Another bonus is abundant honey production. Don't know if it would be a goer but am planning some trials. Have transplanted some in the past and they seem to be doing alright, pretty crap form but if planted at high stocking should be alright for selective logging in the future. Crap for fire wood.

Up
0

From my Taupo native plant nursery catalogue "Bible"(now sadly defunct), "Rewarewa, Knightia excelsa, often dominant in regenerating bush ; wood for furniture , Flowers attract birds and bees".
Really nice honey , only 3 metres high after 10 years , but can attain 25 metres.
They list 14 native trees as having "timber potential ". I remember seeing Kauri with growth rates painted on them on great barrier island , a fores service trial to measure their viability back in the 80 's . Never been back , so don't know the results.

Up
0

Point been , after 50 years . or the carbon price collapsing due to no demand , you could have some very valuable native timber.
At the moment , I think you need a minimum of 50 ha , and a sustainability plan to mill native timber.

Up
0

Manuka is eligible as long as it not trimmed or topped. As long as it makes 5m with 30% canopy cover by maturity it qualifies. This leaves 70% of the canopy cover area can be below 5m. Its land eligibility that is the real issue.

Up
0

I just don't like manuka already have a fair amount of regen but it's scruffy and not very appealing. The trouble with natives is the cost of seedlings and sourcing quantity. Already have enough pines and don't want anymore next best to my mind is E fastigata which I have successful trials of and they look nice. Also have some redwoods which are growing very well and will be a good carbon crop but they look sort of like pine, ah well.

Up
0

About 1/2 the fastigata i planted around 12 yeasr ago have died ,( see why they call them widowmakers). We are down about 400 mm of rain per year for the last 3 years , not sure if it is this , some kind of borer , or the cows eating the bark . also we have had stronger wind than usual . I didnt realise they were so shallow rooted for a tall tree. but cant beat them for growth . Italian Alder have done well on the site , probably 10 metes below the fastigata though.Cows eat the leaves, though not real keen on it .

Up
0

About 1/2 the fastigata i planted around 12 yeasr ago have died ,( see why they call them widowmakers). We are down about 400 mm of rain per year for the last 3 years , not sure if it is this , some kind of borer , or the cows eating the bark . also we have had stronger wind than usual . I didnt realise they were so shallow rooted for a tall tree. but cant beat them for growth . Italian Alder have done well on the site , probably 10 metes below the fastigata though.Cows eat the leaves, though not real keen on it .

Up
0

I think it is important to see the choice facing a farmer is not total carbon forest , vs total grazing. They are going to plant out the steep / hard to farm / non productive areas of their farm first. This will have benefits to the remainder left in grazing as well , Shelter / moisture retention , not having to fence off those waterways , less erosion.
Secondly , a carbon forest still requires work , fencing repair ./ pest control / thinning / pruning.I would think the workforce required would be at least equal to the workforce required for drystock farming.
One thing that does worry me is where wetlands stand in all this? I would hate to see land suitable for wetlands planted out , Theres certainly no shortage of invasive trees that will grow in wetlands. Perhaps the regional councils will claim on all their crack willow holdings , and our rates will go down (Joke).

Up
0

This may be of interest to readers.A farm mixing stock , forestry , conservation and tourism.
https://www.goldpine.co.nz/over-the-fence/james-and-kiri-elworthy/about.

Up
0