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Labour proposes new Variable Savings Rate tool for Reserve Bank and extra objective in Reserve Bank Act to target current account surplus

Labour proposes new Variable Savings Rate tool for Reserve Bank and extra objective in Reserve Bank Act to target current account surplus

By Bernard Hickey

Labour Finance Spokesman David Parker has proposed the biggest changes to the Reserve Bank Act in its 25 year history, including allowing the Reserve Bank to vary compulsory KiwiSaver contributions to help it control the economy and giving it the additional target of a positive current account balance.

“The next Labour Government will upgrade the Reserve Bank Act by broadening its objective and giving it a new tool that will enable it to tackle our high overvalued dollar, help create jobs and keep interest rates low," Parker said in a speech at the Stamford Plaza in Auckland.

Parker said other governments had changed how they operated monetary policy since the Global Financial Crisis and New Zealand now had a currency that was over-valued by up to 15% and mortgage rates were among the highest in the developed world.

He said a Labour Government would broaden the Reserve Bank's objective beyond inflation and price stability "to also assist to achieve a positive national external balance."

It would also encourage the bank to use its current macro-prudential tools to limit credit growth and demand for the New Zealand dollar, rather than just for financial stability reasons.

Parker said it would also introduce a variable savings rate or VSR to allow the bank to vary KiwiSaver contribution rates as an alternative to raising the Official Cash Rate "to take the heat out of the economy."

"This VSR would mean Kiwis would pay money to their retirement savings instead of higher mortgage payments to overseas banks," Parker said.

Parker repeated Labour's policy of making KiwiSaver universal.

"Those in the workplace and not in KiwiSaver will be transitioned in at the current 6% (3% from the employee, and 3% from the employer)," Labour said in its policy document.

"Thereafter, there will be a slow increase at ½ or 1% pa towards the intended total of 9% of earnings. Rather than increasing or decreasing interest rates, the Reserve Bank could ask the government to vary Kiwisaver contribution rates, within a defined range," it said.

"Alternatively, the policy targets agreement could delegate to the Reserve Bank the power to vary Kiwisaver contribution rates within a defined range. Increasing the Kiwisaver contribution rate instead of raising the OCR would have the same effect as an interest rate increase in terms of reducing inflationary pressure and increasing savings," Parker said.

“The independence of the Reserve Bank, and its ability to meet its inflation control target, are maintained," he said.

A Labour Government would change existing objective of the Reserve Bank, which is "to formulate and implement monetary policy directed to the economic objective of achieving and maintaining stability in the general level of prices," to the following:

“The primary function of the Bank with respect to monetary policy is to enhance New Zealand’s economic welfare through maintaining stability in the general level of prices in a manner which best assists in achieving a positive external balance over the economic cycle, thereby having the most favourable impact on the stability of economic growth and the level of employment.”

Political reaction

Finance Minister Bill English said Labour's monetary policy would hit low and middle income earners hardest and not achieve its aims.

“This idea mixes up peoples’ own retirement savings – which require certainty over a long period – with the Government’s monetary policy, which the Reserve Bank reviews and can change every six weeks. The two are completely different and should stay that way," English said in a statement.

“Labour’s approach will force people to save at least 9% of their wages, plus more when the Government decides to up the contribution rate. This cut in take-home pay would hit hardest those low and middle-income families who are unable to save much, or who are focusing on paying their mortgages.

English said New Zealand's current monetary policy settings were considered world's best practice.

“Labour’s ‘tool’ is a confusing solution looking for a problem. This is wishful thinking and there is no evidence it would actually work.

Here's is Parker's speech in full below.

Good morning.

A couple of weeks ago, we marked a significant anniversary. It was 40 years since the start of the Kirk Labour Government’s universal savings scheme.

The scheme was bold, visionary, and ahead of Australia. And Muldoon scrapped it, for ideological reasons. With dancing Cossacks and cold war rhetoric, he managed to scare the country that it was all a giant socialist plot. Looking back, it sounds bizarre that people were sucked in. But he got away with it. And as a nation we are still paying the price.

We are heading towards another 40th anniversary, of sorts, but this one will most likely slip by unnoticed. New Zealand has not had a current account surplus for 40 years. That’s right. It has been 40 years since we paid our way in the world. Even this current financial year – with fantastic terms of trade – we will still have an external deficit.

With a tail wind, maybe we’ll get close to negative 2% of GDP. Thereafter, it will be back up over negative 5% to the end of the forecast period. Forty years living on the national credit card. Forty years of spending more than we earn. Forty years of borrowing and hoping it will all come right in the end, somehow.

There are some who are quite happy to say, in effect, that this is as good as it gets. What’s wrong with borrowing and hoping, they say. What’s wrong with kicking the debt can down the road a bit, for someone else to sort out. We’ve been doing it for 40 years, and the sky hasn’t fallen.

There’s plenty of overseas money to borrow, plenty of Kiwi businesses and New Zealand land to sell offshore. Because to these people, monetary policy is sacrosanct, a kind of infallible article of faith, and they vigilantly guard against meaningful change.

Yet history shows that monetary policy needs to be updated periodically. From chartered companies with exclusive trading rights in return for opening up colonial economies, to the gold standard, to currency controls under Bretton Woods, to independent Reserve Banks and inflation targeting, to post GFC arrangements – monetary policy has always changed. Change, even sensible change, whose time has clearly come, inevitably has its critics.

In earlier generations we had plenty who wanted to hang on to the gold standard beyond its use by date, and then to Bretton Woods currency controls. But simply pretending there is no alternative, and protecting the status quo, is not good enough anymore. I get the sense that for some people, even mentioning a change in monetary policy settings is uncomfortable.

Let me reassure you, because others will try to put words in my mouth. To be crystal clear, the New Zealand Labour Party remains committed to the independent full service Reserve Bank, which you will remember a Labour government introduced in 1989. We remain committed to the control of inflation and the existing inflation target, to a floating currency, and free capital movement.

But that does not mean we are blind to the limitations of current arrangements, and we are willing to act to improve them. After 25 years, it’s time to take another look. And who better to do it than those who set up the current system?

Just like Muldoon before them, our political opponents and their ideological cronies will criticise us – accuse us of economic heresy, of rampant socialism, of runaway inflation, of destroying jobs. All of which is complete nonsense, of course. The critics of any change to monetary policy occasionally proffer excuses – we are a young country – our net migration explains our need to import capital rather than earn or save it.

Of course, these critics often don’t propose any alternative. They say there is no alternative. They occasionally wring their hands and say feckless New Zealanders don’t save or export enough, but are unwilling to concede that monetary policy can be improved to assist. I find it hard to understand why some deliberately fear broadened objectives for New Zealand’s Reserve Bank, when other independent Reserve Banks including the Federal Reserve and the Reserve Bank of Australia already have broader objectives.

It stands out like the proverbial that under current settings our export mix is narrowing further and further towards over-dependence on dairy products, and in particular milk powder sales to China. It stand out like the proverbial that under current settings we will never achieve an external surplus. And it stands out like the proverbial that under current settings we will borrow billions extra every year from overseas lenders, and sell more and more of our land and companies overseas to fund our external deficit.

Because let’s be clear – that is how we make up the difference between what we earn and what we spend by borrowing and by selling our birth right. New Zealand’s record over recent decades proves this. This history is a fact, not some arguable proposition. It is fact not fiction that we have not had an external surplus for 40 years. It is fact not fiction that last time we had terms of trade this good we had a current account surplus. This time we are still in deficit.

And it is fact not fiction that the forward projections of the Reserve Bank, the Treasury, the OECD, the IMF, the Banks, the economic consultancies from NZIER to BERL, and the rest, are unanimous in saying our external deficit will return to minus 5% per annum and stay in deficit for as long as they can predict. And that means our external liabilities – already our greatest vulnerability – get worse. To alter that course, requires sensible change.

It’s obvious. Change nothing, and nothing changes. A successful and fair economy requires a sophisticated matrix of values and settings. Freedom from corruption, a fair division of income and wealth, respect for property rights and the rule of law, protection of natural capital and the environment, respect for human rights, and an educated and healthy population. These are all important ingredients.

Strong democracies are vital to achieve this mix. Ours is one of the most successful democracies. Our record of over 150 years of continuous democracy - unbroken by war, civil disturbance or political upheaval - is one of the longest in the world.

The Labour Party is the oldest political party in parliament. We clock up 100 years of service to New Zealand in 2016. We could fairly claim some of the credit for New Zealand’s success, but the real credit goes to generations of inventive, hardworking, everyday New Zealanders. Judge us from that long history and you will see that it is the Labour Party that has driven most of the important social and economic change over the last hundred years.

Conservative parties tend to trim the sails and tinker, but otherwise are guardians of the status quo. They tend to govern for today, whereas Labour tends to govern for tomorrow. They tend to eventually catch up, and then become defenders of changes they vehemently opposed which Labour initiated.

Take this current National government. They inherited zero net government debt because of the huge surpluses Labour ran – which National opposed – and low unemployment. They inherited KiwiSaver – which they voted against – interest free student loans – which they voted against – and working for families – which they voted against and called communism by stealth. They have kept them all.

They even now begrudgingly praise the Cullen fund, which they opposed and called ‘a dog’ when we introduced it. Since taking the reins, National’s biggest moves have been to cut income tax for high income earners and put up GST, in their first term, and to privatise the value of the public water which drives the hydro turbines of our power companies, in their last term.

And they borrowed around $65 billion – some for Christchurch – but mostly to keep themselves out of the headlines – and keep smiling. That’s pretty much it after 6 years. National has done nothing significant to address the imbalances they railed against.

House price inflation has continued to outpace CPI inflation and income growth. It’s actually sped up. Home ownership rates are dropping. Yet they refuse to address tax biases which contribute to rising inequality, and have been astoundingly ineffective at increasing the supply of the affordable houses our country needs to be built.

Their housing policies are a disaster – a total failure – and that failure is contributing to higher interest rates and higher rents – and the collapse of the Kiwi dream of home ownership. Last quarter New Zealand’s general price inflation was zero – except for the tax rise on cigarettes. So, despite low general inflation, and with our interest rates already higher than the rest of the developed world, the National government’s current settings have our interest rates going up higher still – heading for 8% mortgage rates.

We have had the best terms of trade in a generation, and we still posted a deficit. Despite recent drops in export prices, and with higher interest rates, the exchange rate is now going up even further. Our external deficit is set to follow. The sad truth is our opponents are constrained by their ideology, in this regard.

By definition, they hold back prosperity because their ideology denies them the flexibility to adapt. Their natural instinct is to stick with the status quo – to blame and scapegoat others. The current National government’s export objective since 2008 has been to increase exports to 40% of GDP by 2025. Exports were 32% of GDP in 2008.

With the best terms of trade for 40 years, exports were 33% of GDP in 2013, and are projected by the Treasury to be 30% of GDP in 2018. It is clear the admirable objective to lift exports to 40% will not be achieved under current settings. They have failed. Of course economic policy is complex, but some things are obvious.

As I said earlier, change nothing and nothing changes. We need more exports and import substitution to pay our way in the world and build the wealth of our nation. To achieve this we must improve the competitiveness of our export sector. A suite of carefully considered changes in macro and micro economic policy will be required. Our policy package already includes major improvements to investment, innovation and industry.

We will make KiwiSaver a universal scheme, like it is in Australia. This will genuinely deepen capital markets and reduce the cost of capital. If anyone doubts this, consider how it is that the Aussies now own their banks and most of ours, plus so much of the rest of our corporate sector.

Labour has pro-growth tax policies to direct more of New Zealand’s existing and future capital into the tradeable sector. Our capital gains tax pushes against the tax bias which currently encourages capital into the speculative sector at the cost of the productive sector. In addition to improving the economy, this will make the tax system fairer, and will take pressure off house prices. As in most other countries, it will not cover owner occupied homes. The family home will be exempted.

Our research and development tax credits encourage innovation, and our accelerated depreciation encourages industry to invest in productivity enhancing plant and equipment. Our policies push New Zealand’s economy from volume towards higher value products and services, both in traditional commodities and new industries. I know from my discussions with business leaders that it is already widely accepted that we are promoting an integrated series of policies which will lift export performance.

Our well-considered solutions form a joined up roadmap to growth and prosperity. But significant as these steps are, we do not believe they alone will be enough to lift our export performance to overcome our current account deficit and get our net international liabilities on a sustainable downward track. We are stuck with high interest rates relative to our competitor nations – higher than they ought to be – and not just in the current cycle, but long term.

We exhibit the very characteristics which the IMF warns can adversely affect macroeconomic stability.

Labour has concluded that the current trend is clear and undesirable, and that monetary policy is partially responsible. We have concluded that a broader role for the central bank in support of macroeconomic stability would assist, along with a new tool to achieve that broadened objective. We believe this will help deliver secure and better paid jobs, less inequality and decent returns on our own capital.

We will own more of our own country, and so have more control of our own destiny. We will also be better able to provide the social supports that New Zealanders know make our country strong and fair. These include universal access to high quality health care and education, and support for the elderly and the vulnerable. And so we will sustain and strengthen our democracy into the future.

Why does the effect of current arrangements, which largely ignore our overvalued currency, matter so much in New Zealand? We know we are a small trading nation distant from large markets; that our internal market is small; that we are more reliant on exports than larger economies.

We know this means that exchange rate risks are concentrated for many New Zealand based exporters compared with their competitors. In other words, we know it is even more important in New Zealand than in larger economies to get these settings right.

Exporters and import substitutors readily understand that economics is multi-faceted, and that addressing the effect of monetary policy on the exchange rate is but one part of the recipe. Nevertheless, exchange rates are a key determinant of profitability and cash flow generation for the tradeable sector, and hence a major risk factor influencing the ability and willingness of market participants to invest.

While CPI inflation targeting has helped domestic price stability, exporters note that for them effective price stability cannot be divorced from currency levels. On that score the current system fails exporters. There is a widely held view that New Zealand’s currency is overvalued most of the time. The IMF and OCED have both estimated that the NZ dollar is up to 15% overvalued. Based on OECD figures, HSBC says our dollar is the sixth most overvalued in the developed world.

The Reserve Bank says that it believes, from a long-term perspective, the exchange rate is overvalued. And only last week, when announcing the hike in the OCR, the Bank reiterated the belief that the exchange rate is not sustainable at these levels.

Exporters say, and their reluctance to invest shows, current settings lead to pessimistic projections for the tradeable sector and hence under-investment. Further investment in fixed assets, innovation, and staff depends upon projections of future exchange rates. Investment decisions are forward looking. It is no surprise that faced with a likely unfavourable future export settings; there has been under-investment in exports and manufacturing outside of the dominant primary processing sector.

Of course perishables in dairy are processed – you can’t sell sour milk - but success in dairy is not enough for our country. Milking more cows, natural disaster recovery, rampant house prices and migration are not an economic policy. Global and domestic experience over recent years suggest that monetary policy's almost exclusive focus on low inflation, while arguably necessary to bring high inflation under control in the 1980s, has become too narrow for today’s challenges.

The experience of the Global Financial Crisis and the period leading up to it has demonstrated the instability that can flow from high credit growth, inflated asset markets and trade imbalances. It is now widely accepted that central banks will have to assume wider macroeconomic responsibility, with particular focus on emerging imbalances – including in asset markets - that pose threats to medium-term macroeconomic stability.

In the case of New Zealand, the monetary authority's focus should also include the consequences of persistent external deficits. This is not a criticism of the Reserve Bank. They are doing what Parliament told them to do – target only inflation and publicly advocate for the idea that this is the right thing to do.

Labour has concluded that a change to the objective of monetary policy is necessary, enabled by the deployment of an additional tool to assist in meeting the broadened objective. It is proposed that the objective of the Reserve Bank be updated and broadened beyond inflation to include achieving a positive balance in New Zealand’s external position.

The new objective would be that: The primary function of the Bank with respect to monetary policy is to enhance New Zealand’s economic welfare through maintaining stability in the general level of prices in a manner which best assists in achieving a positive external balance over the economic cycle, thereby having the most favourable impact on the stability of economic growth and the level of employment.

Critics often default to the assertion that changes imply a desire to intervene directly in the foreign exchange market to control the currency, or some intention to limit capital flows, and in both cases tolerance for higher inflation. Not so.

Again, it’s the old Muldoon-style scare tactics from the 1970s. Contrary to this straw man implication, there are a number of options that should be developed, ranked and prepared for activation. These are detailed in the paper we have released today.

Using the mechanism I will describe, the Reserve Bank does not lose control of its inflation target. The new objective would be operationalised through a revised policy targets agreement between the Governor of the Reserve Bank and the Minister of Finance. The Reserve Bank would retain its independence, and its obligation to achieve its inflation objective.

Let me repeat, so as to avoid any misunderstanding, the Reserve Bank would retain its independence, and its obligation to achieve its inflation objective. Are we clear, or do I have to say it again?

The new policy targets agreement would include the existing inflation target, which would remain unchanged. The external balance objective in the policy targets agreement would state the government’s objective for the external balance. This would include both an objective range for the medium term, and a longer term trend objective towards a positive external balance.

The objectives set by government will be influenced by projected long term growth rates and the desired level of net international liabilities. The achievement of a positive external balance will be a multi-year process and will involve a downward correction of the exchange rate to a sustainable level. The adjustment may be less drawn out than current economic models would suggest.

A macroeconomic strategy credibly focused on a more competitive exchange rate and the external balance along with a change in the mindset of policy-makers will encourage higher rates of investment in the tradeable sector than experienced under the current policy regime. The agreement would invite advice from the Bank as to what mix of instruments would best achieve the new broadened objective. Three categories of tool are identified - existing tools, a new tool and other measures.

The existing tools of the Reserve Bank include adjusting the interest rate (through the official cash rate), foreign exchange purchases, and so-called macro-prudential tools such as capital ratios, and loan to valuation restrictions. I expect the Reserve Bank will consider whether the broadened objective is better achieved through a varied use of the Bank’s existing tools.

Overall, interest rates will be lower and so will our overvalued exchange rate.

We propose an important new tool – varying the employee contribution rate for work based savings. The variable savings rate mechanism – or VSR – would allow the raising or lowering of savings rates, rather than interest rates, to reduce or boost local consumption. Of course, a universal KiwiSaver scheme is necessary, as we are proposing. Instead of paying more interest on your mortgage, a similar amount of extra savings would go into your KiwiSaver.

Higher interest payments are lost to the lender, with much of it heading overseas, whereas savings would belong to the saver. As everyone is enrolled in KiwiSaver, and as contributions are increased over time from the current 6% towards the intended total of 9% of earnings, consumption pressures will be lower. The policy targets agreement would set out the government’s intentions in respect of savings.

During this transitional period, the Reserve Bank should be able to manage inflationary pressures with lower interest rates than would otherwise be necessary. The policy targets agreement will request that the Reserve Bank use this once in a life time opportunity to attempt to get underlying (as opposed to cyclical) New Zealand interest rates back to the lower levels charged in our competitor countries.

The policy targets agreement would state whether or not it was the government’s expectation that over the economic cycle Reserve Bank variations to the KiwiSaver rate would be neutral. Using changes in savings rates as an alternative to changes in the official cash rate would mitigate the currency effects of higher or lower interest rates, and reduce overseas transfers on the proportion higher interest payments which currently go to overseas lenders.

Distributional and hardship effects for the lower paid would need to be considered, but could be accommodated in the detail of how the variable rate was applied. Labour would ensure that everyone was treated fairly. As I mentioned earlier, it may sometimes be appropriate for the government of the day to choose not to use of the new VSR mechanism, because the multiple objectives which governments have to balance are broader than monetary policy outcomes.

The contrary view is that enabling the Reserve Bank, within parameters, to deploy the new VSR mechanism would assist in de-politicising its use. The current proposal is that the Reserve Bank only have the power to recommend the use of the new VSR mechanism. Where alternatives to an increase in the official cash rate are excluded, the Reserve Bank would instead use the OCR.

Additionally, the Governor could recommend other measures for the government to consider. These would not be substitutes for current OCR decisions, but would be identified as important topics for the government to address, and are addressed in the paper released today.

With a wider responsibility for macroeconomic stability, the Reserve Bank would explicitly consider the trade-offs associated with its policy decisions and recommendations. The analysis supporting the possible use of the new tool instead of the OCR, and what trade-offs are involved, would be included by the Reserve Bank in advice to the government each time it is due to makes its determination of the official cash rate.

The Treasury would also provide its own advice to the government, independently of the Reserve Bank. Arguments can be put for and against, just as arguments can be mounted for and against use of the OCR. If the government chose not to use alternative tools, the Reserve Bank would use its interest rate lever. The Reserve Bank thus maintains control and responsibility for achieving its inflation target. The policy work on other longer term policies, which could be used to assist the Reserve Bank to achieve the broader mandate, would be carried out by the Treasury in consultation with the Reserve Bank.

This process will expose the important trade-offs involved. It will aid in public and political understanding and lead to better decisions for the betterment of the tradeable sector and New Zealand’s external position. This does not mean we are going soft on inflation. The crippling effect of high and volatile inflation is clear.

No positive growth/inflation trade-off exists in the long run. On the contrary, uncertainty about the inflation outlook adversely affects decision-making by households and businesses, and lowers the potential growth rate of the economy over time. High inflation is hardest on those who lack the means to buy and leverage assets which inflate in value.

High inflation, especially in the absence of any capital gains tax, encourages speculative investments in land and buildings to the detriment of investment flows into productive capital equipment. The high interest rates associated with high inflation also increase the cash cost of investing in that capital equipment needed to improve productivity and maintain export competitiveness. It should be acknowledged that while New Zealand has succeeded in keeping inflation low since the Reserve Bank Act, the international trend was for lower inflation anyway.

Some inflationary pressures would have abated even without the Reserve Bank Act. The spike in imported energy costs passed. The effects of the communication and information technology revolution included major advances in automation. These technology changes combined with lower labour costs in rapidly industrialising emerging markets markedly deflated the price of most consumer goods.

While the success of the Reserve Bank Act 1989 is reasonably clear - low and stable inflation - we should not be blind to the limits and side effects of current monetary policy. Other countries have achieved control of inflation without, as is the case in New Zealand, a prolonged current account deficit or interest rates higher than international norms.

The changes to monetary policy I have announced today are substantial. But they are not radical. Under the policy I have announced today, the Reserve Bank’s independence is preserved, the inflation anchor is maintained, as is the floating exchange rate, and the freedom of capital movement, as is the ability of the Reserve Bank to stimulate the economy so as to avoid deflationary traps.

But we believe there are tigers other than inflation to be tamed. Our changes to monetary policy, in combination with the other policies I have discussed, will result in higher exports. This means higher per capita national incomes, better jobs, higher wages and lower interest rates.

We will reduce New Zealand’s net international liabilities, and have better control over our future. Politicians can’t do everything. We have to prioritise. Significant change requires cooperation with businesses – with both capital and labour. It also requires the various arms of governments to hear clearly what politicians want to achieve. It helps when politicians underline their plans by agreeing to be judged on the success or failure of the metric they have chosen.

I am more than pleased to hold myself to account before the public. These new settings will mean we can start down the long road to living within our means, as a nation, by earning our way and paying our way in the world – for the first time in 40 years. It is an ambitious target that will deliver structurally lower interest rates, greater investment in the export sector, and well-paid sustainable jobs.

Moreover, we will own our own country again, control our own future, pay our own way and stand on our own two feet. I end by reminding us all of the obvious, which we sometimes forget. As Joseph Stiglitz has said, “… managing inflation is not an end in itself but a means to an end. The end is a more stable economy – not just price stability but real stability – and an economy that is growing faster in a sustainable way.” And that is what Labour’s policies will deliver.

Here is Labour's monetary policy Fact Sheet and it's full monetary policy document

(Updated with full speech and reaction from Bill English)

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165 Comments

 

"...to allow the bank to vary KiwiSaver contribution rates as an alternative to raising the Official Cash Rate"

Huh? So for those who have been prudent and paid off their mortgage, he would force us to put more away for when we were 65 or perhaps 67...

And for those who had money on term deposit, to remain on very low interest rates...

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There's a proposal in there that the changes to rates could be neutral over time, i.e. the saving rate would drop below the targeted average rate when the economy is stuttering.  So overall, you would have about the same cash at 65 as you would had the rate been held constant as at present.

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RBNZ can alter contribution rates... after they seek permission from the Government.

Wheeler: We need to raise KS contribution rates, the economy is booming

Cunliffe: No can do, it's election year.

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It's pure ponzi so they can suck money out of your virtual "Kiwisaver" and use it to payoff todays' pension/super bills and cover any other "transient short term shortfalls" in government spending (in excess of the tax-based pension money just freed up for reallocation by KS/means test.

that way Labour won't have to put up the age for qualification for NZ Super

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Labour policy is to put up the age.  Are there any parties bar National that arent planning to put up the age?

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thats the policy now because they don't have an alternative to sell, if it polls badly they'll sing a sweeter tune

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@Uninterested ..... precisely , I could not have said it better myself . Its indicative of Labour's blinkered thinking and narrow points of reference .

How such a hare -brained scheme will ever work eludes me

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And so he would have us paying higher kiwisaver contributions this year instead of hiking ocr?

Where do most of these kiwisaver contributions go?  Well especially if ocr remains low, it won't be going into cash or term deposits. 

Fund managers will be pressured to put more money to work into an already overheated global stock market.  Which equals greater losses for all NZ'ers when the markets correct.  

Once markets correct, labour would drop contribution rates (as global economy depressed), so the fund manager has less cash when they need it most and when stocks are best buying.

 

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That's a decision that is totally up to the fund manager.  There are plenty of kiwisaver funds out there with a split between money markets, bonds, and stocks. All the ones i've seen reserve the right to vary the mix within certain bands while targeting an average.  Nothing to stop a manager holding more cash during higher contribution periods.  Some would even market it as such.

 

In addition many providers allow you to select from a number of funds meaning you could do this yourself.  Login and move the future investment mix towards cash when markets are rising, and move it to stocks when markets have crashed.

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Buy high, sell low.  Great plan...

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Overall an interesting and strategic speech. As a left of centre voter I have found little of import with a conservative caretaker gov and not much inspiration with the critiques from the left. This speech beginns to hilight the essential diffs between an innovative gov and mere conservators. It goes beyond simple bribes.

Nice work!

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Parker isnt "strategic", he isnt even tactical, he's in la la land and he knows it, he's promising what he knows he cannot deliver. Neither he nor Cunliff are  "innovators" they are yesterday's men hell bent on making the RB's job un-workable. 

"bribes" frankly I followed Cunliff on facebook etc for some months and the bribery was copious and pathetic. Hell would freeze over before I'd vote for this Labour.  I'll add that I wouldnt vote National either BTW, even worse.

regards

 

 

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It's all very deliverable, both technically, and politically, with likely support from NZ First and the Greens. It seems strategic to me. The policy is probably the single most useful policy on long term wealth creation for New Zealanders that I can recall for a long time.

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It's nothing more than a grandious Socialist plot which undermines the democratic process.

Economic engineering to save the arse of Politicians.....by transferring the responsibilites to a Stand alone State Agency.......

 

I would rather allow wealth creation for all the people......not a specific breed of parasites. And this arrogant policy will not deliver wealth creation.

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why can I only thumbs up that comment once....

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In short Stephen Joyce will have his work cut out to squash the logic here.

 

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Hands off our Kiwisaver Mr Parker.

I am a huge fan of Kiwisaver, and believe it should be compulsory.  But it's our money and not for use in macro economic management.

We always were going to have to defend it and this is one of those times.

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It will get worse IMHO.  I think we'll see Govn "instructing" kiwisaver funds to put money in NZ and that means predominantly council and Govn debt.  In effect we'll fund the left wing spending by the back door instead of tax up front and then also lose all the pensions when the defaults arrive.

regards

 

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To achieve the current account in balance, they may well want the money invested offshore to keep the dollar competitive. But that is an aside. The funds will very much stay the property of their individual owners, and as Parker says, it will mean more returns to individual New Zealanders than to overseas banks and investors when the economy needs slowing.

I would be astonished if they did not keep the investment management independent, like the Reserve Bank.

 

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A quick swipe of the pen, and Kiwislaver funds will have to hold a portion of their holdings in NZ Government Bonds

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Future News Headlines............

BREAKING NEWS: The KS Pity Train has just derailed at the intersection of Suck It up and Move On, and crashed into...We all have problems (and ours at the RBNZ are bigger than Yours).....before coming to a complete stop at....Get the Heck Over It.  Any complaints about how we operate can be forwarded to 0800 The RBNZ-waa-waa....This is Dr.Sniffle Wheeling Reversing Reporting LIVE from Quitchur Fussin@RBNZ.....  Suck it up Cupcake Citizens....we have a mandate.

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I am a huge fan of KiwiSaver precisely because it isn't compulsory.  I am very happy to be in it myself, but I do not think it is any of my concern whether other people are.  In many cases forcing people to sacrifice some variable portion of their income will cause immediate hardship to them and their families, which they may not feel is justified by the fact that they might have more money later than they otherwise would have done.  And they certainly won't feel it is justified by any macro economic benefits.

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In many cases forcing people to pay higher interest rates on their mortgages causes immediate hardship to them now. Given the inflation outcome expected will be similar to now; then overall monetary policy should be no looser or tighter, such that the overall levels of hardship being felt should be the same as now- except that the extra funds are going in to their own accounts, and not into overseas corporates. 

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They're not forced to take out mortgages, or to take out mortgages of such magnitude that they will not be able to sustain a change in interest rates.   This proposal would, however, force them to join (and presumably to keep contributing to) KiwiSaver.

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However given Capital Gain (or appearance of capital gain) means that a "big as you can cover" mortgage would be a viable retirement plan, as long as (1) more bigger fools also join the fund pool, (2) that property prices continue to rise faster than the "interest == managers costs" deductions

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What's your point?  That some people make different decisions from other people as to how best to prepare for their own retirements?  Do you think there is something wrong in that?

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the only reason I accept KS as anything other than a tax, is that it is voluntary.

however, KS (and other funds have fees, deducted from the earnings and from the pool, as commission and costs).  That can be compared to the cost of property interest.

therefore as long as the interest paid is less than the funds fees & commission, the property will be a better deal...and considering the sovereign/retirement funds like property as a core investment.....  it is likely to mean property will always remain competitive no matter how high the interest rates!   (interest  vs interest+commision+fees )

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But MdM - you pay a compulsory funding for National Superannuation right now.  To be consistent then, should participation in National Superannuation be made non - compulsory ?  

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Do you think that because it's not compulsory to own a car, it shouldn't be compulsory to pay that portion of your taxes that funds public transport?

 

National Super is paid for out of general taxation and the amount that individuals receive is unrelated to the amount that individuals contribute to it, same as publicly funded education and health services.  KiwiSaver is an option through which individuals can, if they wish, pay more and so get more out.  They're completely separate mechanisms to which completely different considerations apply.

 

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MdM.  Not sure what your point is.   I'll put the question this way.  If Kiwisaver was implemented and National Superannuation was eliminated.  Would you see compulsory KS then as acceptable - given we have compulsory NS now.

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But nobody is talking about eliminating National Super.  I would very strongly oppose such a proposal. 

 

If you are suggesting an approach under which everybody had to fund their own retirement through their own savings and/or continued participation in the workforce, and nobody received any public pension at all, well I would not see that as an improvement on the current system.  While the incentives for personal saving and working would be strongly increased, the distributional and welfare effects are terrible.  

 

Further, given that we are where we are, it would be a difficult and lengthy process to move from the policy we now have - where each generation funds the pension of the generation before - to a policy where each generation funds its own pension.  Assuming it would be unacceptable to suddenly stop paying Super to those who are receiving it now, you would have to go through a lengthy transitional period of a generation having to fund both its own and its parents' pensions. 

 

You might be interested in this recent paper setting out from an Australian point of view why the NZ approach to pensions is better than theirs.

 

http://apo.org.au/research/sustaining-us-all-retirement-case-universal-age-pension

 

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well said.

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MdM     ....But nobody is talking about eliminating National Super...  I'm talking about it.
 
.....you are suggesting an approach under which everybody had to fund their own retirement..  Yes.  I am suggesting it.

...it would be a difficult and lengthy process.......   Yes. Thirty year plan.  But not difficult

....to a policy where each generation funds its own pension......  Yes.   There is a strange belief that individuals can't afford to fund their retirement.  But taxpayers can afford it for them.
 
..... this recent paper......  thanks

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You are missing the redistributional impacts.  Under the present system, all over 65s receive NZS funded by rich young people.   This means a substantial increase in the lifetime wealth of poor people and a reduction in the lifetime wealth of rich people (they don't get as much back from NZS as they contribute to it).   Under your system, everybody's lifetime wealth would  simply be redistributed through time.  Richer people are made better off, poor people worse off than under the present system.  Bravo.

 

You could tackle that in part by not requiring people to fund their own pensions individually but instead requiring generations as a whole to fund their own future NZS through the taxpayer-funded NZ Super Fund.  On reasonable assumptions about growth and investment returns it does reduce the net present value of the overall cost, if you calculate it over a long enough time period to get past the transition during which taxpayers have to fund two sets of pensions.  But then, on those same reasonable assumptions, future generations will be richer than today's generations.   So again, you are transferring money from poorer to richer people. 

 

 

 

 

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MdM.  Yes I am "missing' the redistributional aspects.   But lets just say that's because I don't believe Kiwisaver is the place to do that.

Any concern about inequality is best dealt with by making more people wealthier, and by making us all wealthier as a nation.   Using Kiwisaver as an additional  transfer system is simply less visible than most taxes.  As such it is misleading.

I detest the endless restating that it's all about redistribution of the limited pie.  I would be refreshed to hear that we took a basic approach to increasing that pie.  Not neccessarily by getting busier, but also by basic increases in productivity and waste reduction. 

Yes.  There are transfers of wealth.  Kiwisaver, which you like, makes my youth poorer and my old age richer.  

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Hang on a minute - we were talking about NZS, not KiwiSaver.  NZS and KiwiSaver have completely different redistributional implications.  NZS transfers wealth between different people at the same time, KiwiSaver transfers wealth between different times of the same people's lives. 

 

I started this aspect of the conversation by saying that I liked KiwiSaver because it is not compulsory.  As such it makes your youth poorer and your old age richer only if that is what you wantI have been clear and consistent that I do not favour compulsion, and I do not favour Labour's latest variant on that theme.

 

I do, however, favour NZS as a pensions policy.  If as a society we do not want to let any elderly people starve, then a universal taxpayer-funded flat rate allowance is probably the most cost efficient way of achieving that objective.    If we decide as a society that we do not mind if old people starve, then by all means don't have a pensions system at all.  You may well get more economic growth, and greater total wealth, as people will be incentivised to work harder and longer, and to save more.   You'll also get more inequality, but perhaps you think that's a price worth paying; people will have differing opinions about that.

 

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There's a growing body of research showing that if you let inequality grow, and let people starve in the street, you actually get lower economic growth.  If you have travelled places like Brazil and South Africa, it's quite obvious the impediments to growth that hugh inequality can be.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/feb/26/imf-inequality-economic…

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Wouldn't disagree with that, except you need to add in "to too high a level" after the word "grow".   Certainly, if you have perfect inequality you will have no economic  growth, for nobody will have any incentive to work.   But it's equally the case that if you have perfect equality you will have no economic growth, for nobody will have any incentive to work.   Therefore it is possible both to have too high a level of inequality and too low a level of inequality.  I don't think it's clear which we have in NZ, which is around the middle of the OECD in terms of the standard measure of inequality

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Yes good point, people need to see that they can keep the fruits of their labour if they work hard to get ahead,  but the system shouldn't be so free that only the wealthy can get ahead so why even bother.

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The current account is finally being seriously addressed. Very good news indeed. Well done.

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How come Labour says no where else is doing this if Singapore are already?  Are there significant differences between Singapore and Labours proposals, or is Labour just trying to claim credit for an innovative policy that is just a copy from overseas?

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Hi there, Wondering whether you had read my article on the Dynamic Savings Level approach? This was published in March 2011. I had also circulated the idea locally. See link. http://www.fishhead.co.nz/articles/our-capital-our-most-successful-expo…

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Well done Kimy

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"The high interest rates associated with high inflation also increase the cash cost of investing in that capital equipment needed to improve productivity and maintain export competitiveness"

Instead of increased ocr, he increases kiwisaver contributions. 

This equals a mandatory increase in labour costs for all businesses.  This does not mean higher wages.  This means no pay-rise, as govt. has just forced us to increase the matched kiwisaver contribution.

So in good times, increase labour costs so that hard working nz'ers can have a bigger nest egg if they are lucky enough to live to 67+.

The opportunity cost of increasing labour costs is less money for capital investment; most of which nz businesses import from overseas, and most of which is at its cheapest during the good years due to high kiwi dollar.

 

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Oh, the money shot:

"The primary function of the Bank with respect to monetary policy is to enhance New Zealand’s economic welfare through maintaining stability in the general level of prices in a manner which best assists in achieving a positive external balance over the economic cycle...."

 

Well, I  can suggest a long list of impeccably credentialled Party hacks, headed up by our very own - oh wait, strike that, he's Aussie - Normal Russian, to head up and staff:

  • the Office of Price Control and
  • the Manufacturing Commissariat and
  • the Kiwisaver Supervisory Force and
  • the Agrarian Revolutionary Movement and
  • the Internal Security Enforcement Team and
  • the Inflation Busters Squad.

 

Have I missed any?

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yes

  • the Interest.co Nutters Retention Facility

;o)

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yes.

 

you missed the

 

office of screw the poor out of their assets.

office of rape the resources and to hell with future generations

office of those who need to turn a blind eye to drone strikes.

office of those who need to turn out unquestioning students

office of those who make sure everyone is indebted and therefore treadmill-tied.

office of those who need spin-doctors because - oh, that's right, that's all of them. (Was Joanne Black behind the 'natural growth' spin, Bill?)

 

I've just emailed Espiner, who dropped the ball when Cunliffe - probably unwittingly - mentioned oil prices this morning. We need a media. Any would be better than what we have.

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The Aussies have compulsary super and at a very high percentage of income but this hasn't led to restrained credit growth. Quite the reverse. The people have simply compensated by borrowing to fund their lifestyles with the certain prospect of a meaty payout on retirement. Consequently the Aussies have very high levels of private sector debt, high levels of foreign ownership, negative current account balances and a massive parasitic financial sector. The city spivs just love it.

Would the same thing happen here? Be interested in more detail on the RBNZ's macro tools mentioned but it would seem that simply raising the super contribution rates has had little effect on restaining rampant credit growth, housing bubbles or CA deficits. 

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I'm all for getting the current account into surplus but the tough bit is that a lower NZD is a wage cut. Parker is trying to look like he knows what he is talking about and that we can trust him - beware the appeal of the centrally planned economy - it all sounds so good. It is good for those who are near the controls, but perhaps less so for the rest of us.

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it is always worse for the rest of us.   that's how it's monitored.  If the "edge" isn't screaming in agony then obviously maximum transfer to public works hasn't been achieved.

Always remember in a central planned economy, you are worthless, you are always recyclable with some other faceless victim to be bled dry until they collapse, when they too will be replaced.   all their money bleeds the same colour, no matter who is grasping the harness.

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Roger,

You are of course correct. A currency drop is a wage cut, certainly for those not in export or import substitution jobs (as over time you would expect their relative worth and income to increase). It seems difficult to me to achieve the current account in balance or surplus without a wage cut, and the currency drop is the most pain free way to achieve it. The current account won't magic itself away. It does seem likely that a fair bit of the cost in this scenario will be taken by foreigners, albeit given our relative small size, they should barely notice.

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Agreed RW, this Orwellian initiative makes as much sense as Jim Anderton's tax on Nanna's sherry to stop teenage girls scoffing RTDs. Anyway, any government can already direct the RB now pursuant to s.12 RBNZ Act 1989; they just have to do so in the prescribed form and of course take the responsibilty for all the (inc. unintended) outcomes - which is the bit not popular among pollies! There is nothing wrong with the existing law here - it just has not been properly administered and enforced since Dr Brash left.

Ergophobia

 

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So Kiwisaver will be undressed and exposed as a tax which I suppose is a good thing.  But when are people going to start realising it is a tax that is paid to brokers who then divide it up and send the funds directly to private corporations, rather than to the government as is usual for taxation.

 

 

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Then why would RBNZ or government need to interfere in the private business?

It has no public interest, in profit or protection.
 

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The point is that it is not a private business. It is the govt and corporations acting in tandem to take your hard earned cash. This form of govt was traditionally referred to as fascism.

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the point of fascism is purely one of control and power.

 

hence the need to keep the communist influence out of german factories, by buying a political party.

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So lets see......is this not a direct admittance that Politicans engineer the economy?

Using KS as a mechanism to control Government screw-ups in the  way they run the economy is abusive Policy!

The populace doesn't vote for the RBNZ?

This is a direct smack in the face for democracy.......

Labour Politicians have always prefered this transferance of duty process to Bureaucrats which is undermining democracy in NZ.

 

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So the aim is to make huge mortgages more affordable than they would otherwise be by taking out some discretionary spending dollars?

He wants to encourage higher mortgage lending?

When banks assess the customers ability to pay, this job will become even more complicated.

Conversely, when there is pressure to drop the cash rate, the RBNZ wouldn't do that. It would decrease peoples kiwisaver rates!

Sounds like there may be some unintended consequences with this one!

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So the economy needs money taking out of it.

Option 1. pay it to foreign owned banks never to be seen again.

option 2. Put it in a account to access in later years.

Hard choice. Note though I'm self employed so it really doesn't matter to me  directly.

As to the balancing of accounts, no brainier, sooner or later it's got to be done and the reality of our collective situation sheeted home.

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This is the only intelligent policy to come out of Labour in many, many years.  It can simultaneously control inflation and help solve our problem of how to pay for our aging population in retirment.  Why Labout didn't choose Parker to lead is beyond me. 

 

Not politically popular however, this wont win them votes because all your average person reads is "Labour will take more money straight from my pay check and I won't see it again till 65, maybe 68+). 

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inflation isn't a problem.  otherwise government wouldn't be forcing price increases through higher interest rates and lifting minimum wage

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Inflation, or deflation, is not a problem right now but when (not if) either one becomes a problem in the future this is IMO a good tool to help control either. 

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if by "tool" you mean "way to make it worse" then yes...

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Higher interest rates to deal with inflation? You've got that wrong buddy - rising interest rates are used to fight inflation.  They result in people borrowing less and consuming less, leading to lower prices - in theory at least.  Hmmm.... thought that would be 101 for people on this website?  Whale Oil's down the road if that's your angle?

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how do you borrow less if you're on a fixed term?  Or if you're funding business from a line of credit?   If you had the cash lying around wouldn't be better to paydown interest previously rather than save on-call interest vs paying interest of a loan/bond - thus borrowers are already heavily indebted - which means they must increase revenue,   Likewise if they spend less, then they must have been inefficient before, and if they have debt, it would make sense for them to have already tightened up on efficiency.

:.  Start looking at the problem from a real business cashflow and year-end position - not from the bs the education and political system feeds you.   Show me the money.   

How is the existing efficient business with proper effective debt levels (20-40%) and current average wages going to be effected?   How are the employees and people with credit cards, hp's and mortgages going to be affected?

Many are already either on tight budgets (so can't really spend less), or have already reached a "don't care" point which means the change won't affect their spending habits at all anyway.

Thinking for yourself, it happens around here occasionally, and far more important than the spoon fed lies of 101

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And for everybody else that is on a floating rate or about to enter the market?  Costs are lower because of lower interest rates right?  And therefore more disposable income and also higher amounts of borrowing due to lower interest rates, which equals more investment, which leads to inflation... 

 

As for your point, people with credit cards are going to end up paying more because of higher interest rates and therefor have less disposable income, therefore spend less, therefore taking away inflationary pressures.  You just proved my point Sir.

 

I stand by what I said, it's basic economics - you're simply talking around the issue.  But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story cowboy.

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Those about to enter the market will already have what is called "momentum".   It's a bit like when you get all dressed up pick up your partner and go to the show ... and find you've left the tickets at home.  You've already committed an evening and your social standing and a few funds to the forgotten tickets.... just how much more will you be willing to pay a scalper to stop the disappointment?   Thus it is often the same with those about to enter a project or hire purchase, they have reached a commitment point with their emotion and heart; it takes a lot to cut your existing loses for no gain.

Your second paragraph is incorrect.
Those with credit cards have less money at the end of the week, so what they need gets placed on the "never never".
Then they have even less disposable after interest, so have to lean on the credit more, not less.
and that's not even counting those who have already started down that path.
 

But if they are spending the same or less, then the business they are buying from has less revenue.  How then does the already efficient business make up for lost margin?  It must put up prices.... thereby causing inflation.

spending more, when supply is plentiful, allows for elasticity of supply.  As long as the supply can keep up with demand prices will hold steady, true inflation only occurs when supply lags demand.
However reducing spending ability, means business revenues drop, which directly affects wages (especially wage rises).  A drop in revenue is equivalent to a costs increase per unit supplied.  Cost of supply goes up. Elasticity is reduced.  Prices will rise to meet the lower demand - because although supply is plentiful, it's not plentiful at the old price, only at the newer, higher price.   The new higher price, results in lower demand, thus the balance is maintained.
 It's important to take into account what your drivers are - in this case the need for a business to recover it's supply cost + margin.   It acts as a linear programming overlay on your supply/demand curves.  Supply can increase, but if cost of product (eg interest per unit sold) goes higher, then the price affects the demand... but because the price is a follower of production, not of demand, then the inflationary effects are reversed.  (inflation pushed up by production cost, and held high by lack of demand).  Net result; many products/services will start disappearing off shelves, unable to maintain sustainable production volume.

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Dont be too sure about that. Compulsory super has been going for 24 years in Australia. Current analysis has revelead that in 1990's when it commenced, 75% of all those over 65 years of age were receiving pensions. Today, 24 years later, the number of people 65 and over receiving pensions is still 75% so the design expectations of compulsory super have not been met. It is not working as intended.

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True - I understand the majority of Australian reitrees are using their compulsory funds for holidays and cars. So basically "give me luxuries now" instead of a steady income later.

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That's about to change in the upcoming budget in 2 weeks time

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Yes, that'd be interesting.. more tax for the average earners in the Lucky Country!

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Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't compulsory super savings simply replace the benefit paid out now.  So if compulsory super kicks in, say, today, a law is also passed today saying that there is no govn retirment beneift paid out after 2044 ish.  Everyone after that point will simply rely on their compulsory super and there would be some phasing in between. 

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That is not what Labour have actually said.  If that is their intention, they should be upfront about it and make it completely clear.  Sounds very similar to the proposal that was put forward by Winston Peters and overwhelmingly rejected in a referendum a few years back

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You are probably right but Parker wont admit that.. The major benefit of compulsory retirement savings for the State is the ability to greatly reduce taxpayer funded retirement income in  the future.The rules would be changed to enforce the purchase of annuities rather than allow a lump sum withdrawal and the amount of the annuity would be a deduction from the National super payment.This is probably good policy but electoral suicide if the proponents of the idea are honest about their real intentions.

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Thus moving us more towards the Australian approach, which many have advocated.  You too might be interested in this view from Australia about why they should move more towards the NZ  approach

 

http://apo.org.au/research/sustaining-us-all-retirement-case-universal-age-pension

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Happy - if that is the plan then there will be an enormous backlash by the people who are supporting the current universal benefit recipients via the tax system and are also expected to save for their own retirement but not get any assistance in the future for themselves.

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There is no fair option for funding retirement, not any more.  I'm 35 and I'll soon be asked for more and more tax dollars to pay for the retiring baby boomer generation, probably more (as a percentage) than the boomers themselves paid.  It's not my fault that boomers voted against compulsory super in the 70s but I will soon be asked to pay for that decision. 

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Happy, We do not always agree, but on the fact that this is a very good policy, we do. And that it could be a hard sell. It shouldn't be all that hard to sell that whatever money is taken out will be going into your Kiwisaver account, rather than lost in interest to your bank. Some people will though cotton on to the fact that their overseas holidays will become more expensive. Whether enough New Zealanders care about their, and their childrens', future rather than the present, may decide things. 

 

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I've just taken the time to read some other comments and they have re-enforced my belief that this is a good policy in long term for NZ Inc.

 

I did however under-estimate just how politically unpopular this might be, IMO voters are going to read this as, more expensive TVs and I-pads, more expensive petrol, money whipped out their pay checks on the whim of the RBNZ, potentially compulsory super savings replacing the free-for-all benefit we have now, and yes, more expensive trips to Fiji. 

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Are you saying then that the welfare of any individual's or family's future selves - whatever their personal circumstances, preferences, risk appetite, expectations etc - always trumps the welfare of their present selves?

 

 

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I think they will, or hand JK a 4 or 5th term.

God help us.

regards

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This policy will not decide the election, most people don't understand or care about this 'stuff'.  In my opinion Labour will lose the election because their house is not in order, Cunliffe is not a leader, they fight amoungst themselves, their core values are antiquated and they go on and on about who Judith Collins had lunch with when voters don't care.   

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If they wanted to control inflation they could get back to the basics....Most of the current inflation came from Government not the private people.

Who sets the interest rate and keeps the profit from those settings? The same damn organisation that would be granted a secondary tool under this policy.

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With the lower NZD, the first thing that hits the poorer income earners will be fuel price.  Unfortunately the average Kiwi will judge the Political Party accordingly with this 'short term" loss.  "What's in it for me right now? " they asked!

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If they wanted to control inflation they should increase the capital adaquacy requirements on the banks and LVRs on individuals.  Both these tools should be gradually increased and the resulting deflation offset by printing money to re-build Christchurch and upgrade our infrastructure. 

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I wrote this article on what I called the Dynamic Savings Level approach back in late 2010. It was published in Fishhead magazine (local Wellington magazine in March 2011). Nice to see the idea has gained momentum since then. This could transform the New Zealand economy for the better. http://www.fishhead.co.nz/articles/our-capital-our-most-successful-expo…

 

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So sad to see New Zealand now firmly on Hayek's "Road to Serfdom". Classically what we see is the morphing of once well-meaning socialism into what Hayek described as it's inevitable end-point - fascism. What is fascism? isn't it simply the co-opting of the apparatus of the state by powerful corporate and financial interests? 

 

So quite logically the Labout Party effectively proposes a defacto private income tax by forcing people into Kiwisaver where well-connected interests take tribute in the form of fees and other liens. Futher out - have no doubt - those same socialists will direct the accumulated funds (your retirement savings) in to whatever insane but elite enriching scheme they chose. Remember also, these are the same people already divvying up the anticipated spoils from their capital gains tax so do not be fooled into thinking they have any intention of seeing housing more affordable.

 

As to the current account deficit it exists for one fundamental reason - Britain's entry into the then EEC in 1973. It was a scandalous act of betryal of our Kiwi friends by Britain's ruling elite and NZ has never been able to pay its way in the world since. Yet isn't the EU the Marxist blueprint that commands every idea that fills the heads - not just of the Labour Party - but of their fundamentally ideologically similar bedfellows in National?

 

It's not too late for NZ to turn back along Hayek's sombre and Orwellian road but it soon will be. Europe is sinking into the same morass that occured at the end of the Western Roman Empire - when all wealth was deemed to belong to the state. That is why money was hoarded because everything was being taxed and consfiscated. Why do we, as a young country, imitate such folly? We must reject compulsory savings and we must reject banker engineered property inflation. Only then can we accumulate real capital and deploy it in ways that benefits the broader population and not just a tiny cabal of selfish well-connected interests and their chardonay quaffing vassels in parliament.

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If you are so worried about "well-connected interests tak[ing] tribute in the form of fees and other lien" why not direct your funds to a SuperLife cash fund.  Fees of 0.10%, or NZ bonds 0.13%. http://www.superlife.co.nz/fees.html

 

Do you also complain about well-connected interests taking tribute every time you make a purchase at the supermarket? Or do you grow all your own food?

 

Realy this whole notion of saving for your retirement being an income tax paid to private corportates is absurd.  The funds are owned personally by you.

 

45% of UK exports go to Europe, it would be a disaster for them to pull out of the EU to maintain exports with NZ.  And it's absurd to blame the current account in 2014 on this 1973 event. The current account was negative prior to 73 and we have had plenty of time to diversify, and were doing very well at that until China came along and we put all our eggs in one basket again.  

 

"The proportion of the current account deficit that is attributable to the investment income imbalance (a net outflow to the Australian-owned banking sector) grew from one third in 1997 to roughly 70% in 2008.[28]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand

 

That propbably a more relevant cause of the deficit today that the EU common market forming in 73.

 

Anyone got current account data source for pre-1970?

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If the funds are owned personally by you you should be able to withdraw them at any time, and there should be no possibility now or in the future for any government to change the rules as to access to those funds. I guess it depends on your idea of the meaning of ownership. Some people thought they owned the power companies because they were citizens of NZ. Then the govt partly sold them. Why would the govt not do the same with kiwisaver. After all the govt contributed some of the funds

 

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It is certainly possible the government could change the law and dip into them a-la Argentina 2008.  It could also change the law and compulsorily requisition your home ala Russia 1917.
Nothing stopping the government taking the cash in your saving account either.

http://www.economist.com/node/12685478

Unlikely to happen in NZ IMHO.

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Some people in Mt Albert and Waterview thought they owned their homes until NZTA decided that wanted to build a motorway so busy execs could get between the city and the airport quicker.

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Most laws are written to the legal fundamental that contract and ownership are secondary to "public interest"

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If I stop a chap in the street and force him to hand over 0.10% or 0.13% of the money in his wallet - against his will - I have commited a crime. So where's the difference when the state mandates that you hand over same to one of their associates?

 

As to food I either buy from supermarkets or, where possible, from independents. There is a difference though - I dont have some politician telling me what proportion of income I must spend. Also food is consumed. One does not steadily accumulate a big pile of the stuff that then becomes tempting for someone else to take years or decades hence. (unless, of course, one is a squirrel).

 

In respect of funds being "personally owned by you" that is correct until governmenent mandates otherwise. A great deal of British heavy industry was owned - by the owners - untill Clement Atlee simply nationalised it post 1945. Closer to home various freeholders "owned" land in Christchuch untill government mandated that it should be taken for some greater purpose. Goverment also has the power to extinguish savings via inflation - go study the fate of those who "owned" their retirement savings in Weimar Germany (or even during the Heath and Wilson years in Britain). Ominously, an EU document this year has apparently proposed the superstate mandated deployment of private savings. I wonder how many Europeans are fully confident that their retirement nest egg wont simply be taken in due course? Perhaps that's why some of the associated articles of the Lisbon Treaty exist - especially the provisions for how the supersate might deal with times of social disorder (and you thought Vladimir Putin was bad!).

 

It would not, of course, be a disaster for Britain to pull out of the EU (the usual tedious propagangda) - it would be a disaster for the EU. Why do you think they have done everything in their power to prevent us leaving - including flooding the country with pro- EU migrants? Simple, because as prior to the ICENI uprising of AD 60, we are feeding the resistance to the old, old, doctrine of a pure European corporate state. The UK has a trade deficit with Europe and, in consequence, they have more to lose than us. Moreover, by cynically flooding Britain with a lot of very bright young people - who have been forced to leave Greece, Italy, Spain, Poland, (the list goes on and on) - they have actually given us a huge advantage for the future. Especially from Southern Europe young people are fleeing the handiwork of the EU with its mass youth unemployment. The EUs breathtaking cynicism - which is simply an approach based on the old Roman invention of mass tactical immigration imposed on countries they had conquered - may well backfire on the Marxist bores in Brussels. We wind up with loads of bright young things and they wind up with a load of welfare dependant old codgers.

 

We can debate the current account, but perhaps a few older Kiwis can educate us about unemployment levels, real incomes, housing affordability, and New Zealand ownership of assets prior to 1973. Would this be favourable, or unfavourable, compared to current circumstances?

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Any such comparison of 1970 vs 2010 would have to consider the terms of trade in the 50s and 60s vs the 90s and 2000s.  A lamb was much more valuable in the post-war period.

http://www.stats.govt.nz/tools_and_services/newsletters/price-index-new…

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Thank you for that. To transfer the nations assets to a bureaucracy called KiwSaver is very stupid, to my way of thinking. The key requirement in a fund manager is to manage career risk. It is okay to be wrong when everyone else is, as then you can say "No one saw it coming". To be wrong on your own gets you fired. So the nation's assets are allocated according to the current fashionable investment strategy.

 

Contrast this with the decision making of an independent business owner, his success or failure is entirely dependent on making good capital allocation decisions. Germany has channnelled their savings to their Mittlestat as a way of putting these decisions in the hands of people at the coal face who are best placed to act on the information in front of them.

http://www.bis.org/publ/work424.pdf

 

 

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German basic pensiosn are paid by a compulsary payroll contribution. The rate in 2012 is 19.6% of pay up to the social security contribution ceiling of € 67,200 (Western Bundesländer) and € 57,600 (Eastern Bundesländer). The amount is paid half and half by employer and employee contributions.

This is a pay-as-you-go system, the money is not invested by rather used to pay out current pensions.

"The amount paid to retirees is based on average salaries. The German pension insurance agency publishes the value of each year`s contribution (remuneration point). This is then multiplied the number of years contributed and the % of the average salary earned during the persons lifetime. The average pension in 2012 1263.15€ per month"

There are also additional Voluntary pension schemes which attract a tax deduction up to a small limit.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_in_Germany

 

Why do you say German pensions are channeled to the Mittlestat?  Do most voluntatry employer pensions only invest in the employing company?  I can't imagine any rational employee being much interested in putting all their eggs in one basket.

 

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Yes, I was rather following the idea that in order to run a capital account surplus you could just leave the money in the hands of those most likely to have a productive use for it, rather than take it off them and give it to a less competent bunch to mismanage. The system I think is worth considering is to reduce the company tax rate to 12% but leave income tax where it is. So, if I run a small or medium sized company that is capable of growing it is in my interest to leave the money in the business rather than face a higher tax rate by taking it out.

 

The idea is that finding productive uses for capital is hard and those best placed in society to have the skills and information in order to do so are those running successful small and medium sized businesses.

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I guess my point was in NZ we force 3%+3% to go into super  (or nothing if you are self employed.), in Germany it's 10%+10%.  So in NZ we are leaving more in the hands of business owners, and not sure why you suggest we follow the German model?

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It seems ironic, you put money into a KiwiSaver fund to withdraw at a later time for a first home deposit, only to find the KiwiSaver fund has invested in companies which in-turn invest in property driving the prices up.

And Labor would have us contribute more?

But I am un-educated (comparatively), can anybody find an Investment schedule for ASB

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your savings will only be invested in property if you choose a property fund.

I'd be surprised if any of the default funds include a significant property component

ASBs default conservative fund does not invest in property.

https://www.asb.co.nz/kiwisaver/asb-kiwisaver/conservativeFund.aspx

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certainly changing from growth to conservative as you see valuations in the stock market becoming stretched is wise;  My issue however is that this is a compulsory scheme, and 90% plus of the people getting into these will not actively manage what fund they are in.

I am a fan of kiwisaver at the lower ends, say 3%+3%, make making it auto enroll is wise, but it should be left at that.  If it gets ramped up to 5%+5% as neutral and 8%+8% during inflationary times, then you have a lot of hard earned money (where NZ incomes are already very poor) going to fund managers, who through the nature of competition will be pressured to (and with higher contributions, further incentivized to) chase higher gains in the stock market 

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You miss the point Simon, if you click on the ASB link provided you'll notice that upto 50% of my Kiwisaver could be invested in property under the guis Cash Equivalents and NZ Fixed Interest. In effect the fund meant to support me in retirement is competing with me getting onto the property market which will cripple me financially if I don't have a mortgage free home by retirement age.

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So you consider putting money in a savings account the same as investing in property?

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No, unless the savings account holder (ASB Kiwisaver), invests my deposit in property related instruments which in this case could easily be financialised as either Cash Equivalent or Fixed Return investments. WHO would know if the ASB is competing with savers to purchase a property?

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a property related instrument is not "Cash Equivalent".  ASB will not be purchasing houses with funds invested in the "Cash Equivalent" fund.  You would need to choose a property related fund to invest in property.

"Cash and Cash Equivalents means short term deposits with, and short term fixed interest securities issued by, New Zealand registered banks"

https://www.asb.co.nz/kiwisaver/downloads/ASB_KiwiSaver_Prospectus.pdf

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as per your PDF, the Cash and Cash Equivalents Fund is managed by 

Colonial First State Asset Management (Australia) Limited who 'manages equity, fixed income, balanced, and real estate mutual funds for its clients'. http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?…
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That's a general description of the fund manager, not the particular fund, whose description i have already quoted.

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This seems like another example of Labour coming up with a complex policy prescription that will be impossible to sell to the electorate because it is so confusing. What they desperately ( after Shane Jones departure really desperately ) need is a simple powerful idea that wiill catch on with enough of the electorate to turn their fortunes around and get them some momentum. The only takeaway from this is compulsory Kiwisaver at higher levels of contribution from employees and employers. That is probably a vote loser rather than winner. The variable contribution rate might even be a good idea but most of the populace find Kiwisaver quite confusing now and making it part of monetary policy will just add layers of mystery.

They could probably achieve the same outcome in terms of money supply by slashing Government expenditure when inflation is looming and putting more money into the Cullen fund. When times get tough they could cut fund contributions and spend more money on infrastructure, which would give things a boost. That is roughly what the Nats have done. That would avoid messing with the heads of poor unfortunate Kiwisavers. All Wheeler would have to do is ring up Cunliffe and tell him how much to cut public spending by. Labour governments love cutting public spending.

The big topic of conversation seems to be kiwisaver and the broader target for RBNZ has not got much attention. How is Wheeler supposed to be  held accountable for the current account position. Is he supposed to control  international commodity prices? All he could conceivably do is try and control the value of the currency in the long term which means using his balance sheet to create more NZD . They have been able to do that for very brief periods but the enormous value of NZD traded makes it impossible to do that even for a month or so.

The discussion around the value of our currency is an example of real short term thinking and ignores the benefits even exporters get from a high NZD. Their input costs are lower because inflation is lower and imports are cheaper. Over time they become more competitive.. Their assets become more valuable . New Zealand assets including houses become  more expensive for foreigners to buy, which is what everyone seems to want. It is not the value of the currency that is a problem, it is the fluctuations that hurt.

I remember a time when retailers would not accept Australian 2 shilling pieces because they were worth less than our own. The counry was doing pretty well then and everyone who wanted one had a job.Noone said the currency was over valued.

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I would be very interested to know how many labour voters have large mortgages versus the number who are renting and really couldnt care less if the OCR keeps getting hiked.

They would be more sensitive to the increased kiwisaver contributions coming out of their pay every week. 

 

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According to most PIs on here renters should care because when mortgage rates go up, landlords costs go up and so rents automatically go up.  Yet to see a graph of rent rates vs mortgage rates to back that up though.

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Politically, Labour need to peel some voters away from National and hang on to their own. If they could actually convince some people that their mortagages will be cheaper because of this idea they might gain a few votes. Whether that will enough to balance the ones they lose by forcing people to give up large chunks of their pay packet when they dont have a mortgage or are saving hard for a home is a good question.

If it was any other party you would think they would have done the calculation and come up with a hard headed assesment. Back in the old days when I was trying to convince people Kiwisaver was a good idea all that had to be done was to make a 2% contribution , the boss would chuck in 2% as well and the governent would put in another 2% as well as give them $1,000. Should not have been too hard but many peoples budgets are so tight even that 2% was a problem. Presume if the total is now to be 9% on average 4.5% would come from the workers pay packet plus a bit when the Reserve bank wants to pull money out of circulation. There is a good chance a lot of people will vote against a 5% pay cut or at least wont vote for it.

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will they use Kiwisaver to bail out Kiwirail and Kiwibank?  Kiwis are sick of pollies putting their beaks into other peoples funds.  Anyway, If this policy is so good why did Shane bunk it

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If you choose a conservative fund that invests in cash, money markets, and domestic bonds, you might be able to get some exposure to kiwibank in your kiwisaver portfolio, but as unlisted entities they are otherwise unable for you to invest in sorry.

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What a big power grab Parker proposes for himself. A massive and compulsory increase in savings as directed by him. How much influence will the minister of finance have on directing where they go? A Reserve Bank governor who has to 'consult' with the government on monetary settings. Even if Parkeer is a 'honest' player how long before a control freak like Muldoon or Douglas comes along to abuse the power.

 

What an interesting reading of history Parker has. Labour in the 30s to 50s had a vision of state home built cities based around rail hubs like the Kapiti and Hutt corridors. (Google Chris Harris -Lost City). The public rejected this big ministry of housing thinking and National was in power for most of last century. Now we have car centric cities like Auckland and Christchurch with infrastructure and affordability problems. If Labour had gone in partnership with local government plus given some space for local developers rather than using the heavy hand on Ministry of Housing, Works etc then maybe there vision would have become reality.

 

Douglas in the 80s went on such a power grab that after voters rejected the National imitation (Richardson) that they demanded the whole political system be reformed. Now we have MMP. If Douglas had matched political independence institutions with economic ones the result might have been more successful and balanced.

 

If you are proposing big reforms like Parker is attempting, you have to propose institutional checks and balances too.

 

New Zealand is not Singapore. We are not a City State surrounded by big countries -Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Singapore has to have the right policy settings to maintain its independence. New Zealand is not a City state and we are far from those bigger countries. We are a long broken country with one big centre, two medium size ones and many smaller ones. Centrally run initiatives when it involves urban development will automatically create divisions, winners and losers in New Zealand compared to Singapore. This is important because saving and debt in New Zealand is about housing -urban development. It shouldn't be, we should be investing elsewhere but it is.

 

Culturally in NZ we tell stories of freedom and if Labour doesn't add this to its DNA it will never have lasting success.

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And the Clark government created the housing and private debt bubble that we are trying to fix now.

 

I would have more respect for Parker if he told us how he was going to reform Local government which even under KiwiBuild will be responsible for the 'planning' and affordability of at least half of homes built.

 

How will the private debt of the home building interact with his Kiwisaver proposals?

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Yes, hammer, nail.. spot on the head!

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And the Clark government created the housing and private debt bubble that we are trying to fix now.

Could you explain how Clarke created the housing bubble Brendon? 

If you believe that to be true, then perhaps you should ask the leaders of most OECD countries why they did the same?

Brendon, many people, including many New Zealanders became very wealthy people as a result of the bubble. It did not burst in NZ, it had a slow puncture and due to the surplus of funds the Labour govt held as National took office it was able to lighten the blow to many.

This argument of Labour creating the Property bubble is fascinating. Perhaps you need to read what caused the GFC and understand that the financial sector backed by bigger and more powerful governments encouraged excessive lending and risk. 

You may also recall that immigration levels in NZ were reaching new heights in 2001 (as they are today).

I look forward to your response.

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Dobrydan I wrote a detailed reply but the website will not allow me to copy/paste. If you would like to email me at b.harre@hotmail.co.uk I will happily forward it to you.

 

Clarke/Cullen did not push back against the property bubble. Many people warned them. Now post GFC we know better.

 

National is all talk no action on this issue. I think it is incredibly stupid that property prices are again rising faster than incomes.

 

Labour now have policies to push back against property bubbles. Capital gains taxes, stopping foreign buyers, Kiwisaver and Kiwibuild. The latter has potential but the devil is in the detail. In any case it only affects about half the market. Google Brendon Harre Housing and read an article I wrote Jan 2013 about this.

 

What I am most critical about the recent announcememnts is that Labour have not proposed reforming Local government where the most potential to improve the elasticity of supply response lies. Labour has avoided the obvious target -local government planning, infrastructure and residential land supply.

 

I see this as being about a Labour DNA thing, there first response is some big nationalistic controlling thing -Kiwi this Kiwi that. When if you look at the places that did not have property bubbles pre GFC -Germany, Texas etc the thing you find is they had local freedoms. The right to build your own house on your own land -German constitution. The right to form a new municipality and build affordable housing -Texas. The right to move to new municipalities that provide better services (including affordable housing) and for a big chunk of your taxes to move too -Northern Europe.

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Thanks for the response and I'll email you shortly.

I believe what you are suggesting is that Labour decentralise government - basically give more autonomy to local/regional councils.

 

Regards,

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The minister of finance will have zero influence where the increased savings go.  That is up the to individual savers to direct their saving to their fund of choice.

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Maybe, Maybe not.

In the very few years we have had Kiwisaver we have already had several changes to it. That is the danger of something created by legislation. The legislation can change at any time for whatever reason some pollie dreams up. We already have a proposal from the fund managers that the default funds become life stage  funds where the asset allocation is set according to the age of the saver. Most savers, especially in default funds have no idea what their money is being saved into.

It would be  quite possible, and maybe even politically popular for Kiwisaver managers to be directed to put 25% say of funds into Infrastructure bonds, or war bonds or whatever seemed a good idea at the time.

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Yes that is a risk.  There's also a risk the government may force the legislated banks to invest your savings in war bonds in times of strife.  Where are you going to put your savings that the government can't, through legislation, touch it?

 

Defaulting to life stage funds is a good idea. That is the norm with defined-benefit schemes in the UK.  No point in a 25 year old saving for retirement in ultra-conservative funds.  

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You know absolutely nothing about my circumstances, preferences, expectations, ambitions, capabilities.  On what basis do you presume to know what's best for my money?

 

Yes, I have no doubt you can cite masses of research showing that individuals can and do make mistakes when making choices concerning their own interests.  But you can't cite masses of research showing how complete strangers make better choices on behalf of those individuals.

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I know quite allot.  I know your age and your retirement age.  On that basis i can select a growth, balanced, or conservative fund as appropriate.  If you don't like it you can change the default.

 

We are talking about the default, why are you not in a rage that the current system makes certain presumptions and so selects a conservative fund for you?

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So the government wants to tie up more of my after-tax income so I can't touch it until I am 67? Throw us a bone of a tax deduction at least (like most western countries). The $521 government credit doesn't cut it when you are paying in 9% of our salary.

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It does not matter which hand is in your, repeat, your pocket.

Left or right, or even unzipping your fly , in the middle.

They are all in cahoots, one way or another and taking the piss, the cream off the top and playing monopoly and credit cards, with a stacked deck.

It does not matter which way  you turn, vote or abstain.

You will be fleeced, taxed, rated, beyond all bounds of possibility. There will be 'fees' too.

They will print to the max, the majority will go to the Rockerfellas, The other major Banks and the FED, feeding off the blind, bothered and bewildered as well as donating to the Corporates and the War Machines.

You will have to SAVE...billions, nay trillions, just to break even.

Look what a normal Kiwi had to save, but never got to enjoy, in their old age.

And if you happen to be working or an employer, heaven help you. It was probably all for nothing.

They will inflate away your savings and leave you with...'Crumbs, where did that all go', as they do not pass GO, did not go to Jail, did not pay a cent, nor ever will, in reparation, but the rewards..."just what we were entitled"..

2008 and Groundhog Day...all change, no change....and you pay their pensions....too.??!!

 

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Even more reason for me to be happy with my property investments.

Labour are going to regulate savers' returns. Meanwhile they will let house values and rents fly free.

Gee... might have to vote Labour.

All's good in landlord land lads.

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Again, the Poets to the rescue...a Kiwisaver Commissar's Lament, and of course the tight-rope is the fabled Balance of Payments. 

 

 Here comes the blind commissioner

They’ve got him in a trance
One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker
The other is in his pants
And the riot squad they’re restless
They need somewhere to go
As Lady and I look out tonight from Desolation Row

Dylan (who else), Highway 61, Desolation Row.  One of Dylans' inimitable quarter-hour monologues......

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Just skimmed through and still no naysayers will tell me why it's better to pay interest than put it in savings. Lots of red herrings about not paying down loans and govt stealing it etc.

 

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 What about those without  a mortgage ?

What about all those savers with deposits ?

What about those mortgage holders who choose not be in Kiwisaver, but instead use all their spare earnings to reduce their mortgage  ?

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Without a mortgage? Status quo remains.

Deposites?  So rates stay low, yes there's an effect but fair to say no one with monetary control has ever given a fat rats about them.

Mortgage holders with no kiwisaver? What about them, they save on interest and will have kiwisaver, only losing a bit of choice.

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Without a mortgage? Status quo remains.

No it doesn't; their K'saver payments have increased.

 

Deposites?  So rates stay low, yes there's an effect but fair to say no one with monetary control has ever given a fat rats about them.

Pre GFC longer Term deposit rates were easily over 8 %.

 

Mortgage holders with no kiwisaver? What about them, they save on interest and will have kiwisaver, only losing a bit of choice.

And to MANY people that CHOICE is the most important thing to them: IE a debt free home.

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The idea is clear. If you have money to save you are not a labour voter. Do'nt save - instead  borrow heaps at the new low rates and put it somewhere like...say housing!

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Without a mortgage?   Whose stopping them putting money into the investment vehicle of their choice?   

 

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You are assuming that interest rates will be lower under this arrangement. Yet Labour is likely to borrow staggering sums to finance its social engineering. Look at what is going on in Christchurch at the moment for example. The price of money is likely to reflect this. Also, remember Labour is likely to put the current immigration insanity into hyper-drive - partly to "purchase" new votes (dependancy migration) and partly to inflate the housing market (wealthy migration) so that tribute can then be taken from hard working Kiwis via their capital gains tax. The idea that a political party is going to introduce a new tax - and then ensure that it does not generate any revenue is frankly absurd. Moreover, do you seriously think they are going to try and lower the price of residential property when the bloated rating base is promulgated on "capital values"?

 

As to "red herrings" about government "stealing" perhaps one could suggest a little more study of history. Fact is in good times they steal through inflation and in more difficult times they steal via outright confiscation. Europe is now entering the outright confiscation phase and that is one of the reasons why they want a pan-European military - because they do not trust sovereign armies to "do the bizzo" when instructed. The great mistake we "westerners" make is to assume that we are somehow immune from the tragedy that affects others. Yet as William Playfair pointed out in 1805 all wealthy nations - without exception - eventually become poor. The essence is to put that day off for as long as possible. With this policy from Labour that day will be foolishly hastened.

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what outright confiscation is going on in Europe right now?  Russia annexing the Crimea?  I'd hardly call Russia part of Europe these days.

 

How about savings, which government in Europe right now is confiscating peoples personal retirement savings?

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savings ?   or managed fund with fees?

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"You are assuming that interest rates will be lower under this arrangement. "

Yes I am. And I don't see why I shouldn't. From what we've seen of the policy that is the general idea, simply a different way of taking a dollar out of the pot.

None of the rest answers the initial question. 

"Just skimmed through and still no naysayers will tell me why it's better to pay interest than put it in savings."

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For them to say that we have the highest interest rates in the developed world, is totally taken out of context with the world situation since the GFC. Having lower interest rates simply fuels higher house prices, as it means that people can afford to pay more for houses, and as they are competing for a limited number of houses, the highest bidder who is prepared to pay more, will end up buying it. This means that interest rates have to remain at low levels, otherwise you will get into a situation where homeowners /  voters will not be able to afford to live in their house if interest rates raise be too much.  It sounds like a policy for borrowers rather than savers. But I guess their are more voters who are borrowers than savers out there. Mucking around with kiwisaver has just eroded it's value. They should just make it compulsory and be done with it.

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Then they need to fix the problems which are making house prices so high...

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That is due to a lack of competition. We pay double the price of what they pay in the USA for many buidling products. If labour came out with a policy for that it may win some votes, but I doubt any party will. Instead they are looking a building cheaper rubbishy houses from expensive materials, rather than actually reducing the material prices.

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There are several ways of doing it but unfortunately our government is corrupt/addicted/incompetently-got-themselves-over-a-barrel and unliokely to be able to impliment any of them.

 

even if they did the quislings in the OIO would sell the country out from under all of us for a couple more dollars

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Great idea labour, Kneecap savers, (there is more of them than mortgage holders) with lower interest rates. Thus encouraging even more borrowing for auckland houses. And devalue the dollar, ( at a all time high best terms of trade time), to make said auckland houses even cheaper for foreign buyers! Well done!

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Adjusting interest rates is meant to adjust a persons willingness to borrow money? Influence a decision. I read a comment the other day where someone suggested altering the maximum term of a loan as another way to influence the decision to borrow. Having a compulsory KS adjusts wage earners willingness to spend, which is a totally different thing, uncharted territory, great care would be needed with this idea.

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reducing the amount of in-pocket cash is just likely to result in more "on tick" sales occurring.  the seller takes a small hit to get the sale revenue, the buyer takes a big hit because of the extra bump up in cash prices to cover interest and fees. The finance company or bank walks away with the money.

and the worst thing you can do is save your money because it'll devalue faster than the goods it used to be able to purchase.

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Forcing me to join kiwisaver and then increase the contribution to 4.5/4.5% is an instant pay cut.  Employers contribution will come out of future pay increases and I'll get 0.5% off my mortgage rates if I'm lucky?

 

This policy will turn me into a property investors heavily as I'll be forced to borrow as much as I can so the lower interest rate can benefit me and hopefully reduce the damages done by the paycut.

 

I'll be casting -ve vote on labour, if only I can.

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Is there anyone out there who is prepared to think not only of themselves?!

In the next 10 years many New Zealander's will be heading into their retirement, most of whom have aquired equity in their homes and who hold funds in private investments plus Super / Kiwisaver. 

If that applies to you then well done and best wishes in your retirement. You've earnt it. I genuinely mean that.

Our debt as predicted will continue to rise from 2% to 5% and unless the country can increase productivity then we have no means of sustaining our levels of debt unless as Parker states  "we will borrow billions extra every year from overseas lenders, and sell more and more of our land and companies overseas to fund our external deficit."

As a 30 something, with a mortgage and young family I don't particularly wish for greater contributions to Kiwisaver (currently 4%); however, I do see the bigger picture. The country (with rising levels of debt) will be in no position to adequately fund my retirement in 30 -35 years unless I increase my contributions and now. 

I appreciate that those self-employeed or in business will see this as a kick in the guts with extra contributions that may be unaffordable. This policy is not a one-size-fits-all.

One forum post above compared 0.5% increase in mortgage rates to 4.5% in Kiwisaver.  

This statement is dependent on two variables: salary and mortgage.

eg. Salary $60,000 Kiwisaver increases from 4% to 6% $1200 extra.

Mortgage $300,000 6% to 6.5% increases interest by $1500.

In this instance you would be better off with Kiwisaver.

Salary $100,000 Kiwisaver increases from 4% to 6% $2000 extra

Mortgage $400,000 6% to 6.5% increases interest by $2000.

Again better off with Kiwisaver.

 

Salary $150,000 Kiwisaver increases from 4% to 6% $3000 extra

Mortgage $500,000 6% to 6.5% increases interest by $2500.

Less interest, but with return on Kiwisaver contribution, you're still better off.

I'm not convinced this proposal will completely fix the over-valued dollar and slow inflation on housing but at least Labour is attempting to address the issue and look into the future for tomorrows generation who have been hesitant to save for their retirement.

 

 

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Very sensible post.

 

The reality is that many in todays near-term and/or already retired generation also failed to save for their retirement.

 

Don't forget all the money lost, largely by the 45+ generation, through seeking higher returns on their savings by instead investing money in the finance companies, rather than save via traditional savings vehicles such as superannuation funds or banks.

 

Many BBers yet to retire will be relying on national superannuation as they lost their "savings" in the fallout from the GFC. Many more invested in realestate and the verdict is out on where that might go in the next 5 years - it could be the next "crisis in savings" to hit NZ.

 

Point is, its not just "tomorrows generation" who have been hesitant to save for their retirement. 

 

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except...mortgage can be adjusted/paid off early and provides return via service.

increasing kiwisaver just reduces the ability for businesses to pay decent wages (or to pay off a mortgage)

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Increasing costs to business just drives those at the edge to the wall; all at once both shrinking the tax base and increasing direct costs in unemployment benefits.

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I wonder what does Gareth Morgan thinks of this plan. I think it is a plan that encorages borrowing over saving privately. In a away it is taking away peoples choice on where they save their money, and what they are saving it for. 

 

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What I find interesting is the fact that the Labour policy dovtails quite nicely into NZ Firsts policies on related matters.

 

For example, here is the NZ First proposed text change to the RBA with respect to s8, the RB's purpose;

The primary function of the Bank is to formulate and implement
monetary policy directed to the economic objective
of maintaining stability in the general level of prices while
maintaining an exchange rate that is conducive to real export
growth and job creation.”

 

Whereas here is what Labour have suggested they will change this same section to as part of this policy initiative;

The primary function of the Bank with respect to monetary policy is to enhance New Zealand’s economic welfare through maintaining stability in the general level of prices in a manner which best assists in achieving a positive external balance over the economic cycle, thereby having the most favourable impact on the stability of economic growth and the level of employment.”

 

Pretty similar.  And of course, NZ First also has that policy of creating a state-owned Kiwisaver provider, "Kiwifund", as a means to resolve the fees issues inherant in any compulsory savings scheme (although NZ First has not suggested they would make such savings compulsory, only that they would see that government provided an alternate provider). And, this government provider would guarantee its saver/investors a return on their capital.

 

So, it seems the Labour policy 'fits' NZ First thinking on a number of fronts. 

 

Which I find equally as interesting as the policy idea/announcement itself :-)!

 

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What I find upsetting is our parochial masters don't seem to understand the difference between "stablise" and "stagnate",  or why the difference is so frighteningly important.

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Thought so - Winston likes it.

 

Turns out, also buried in the Labour policy document is a sweetener targeted at putting a dampener on immigration as well.

 

Very interesting. I'd like to think that Matt McCarten is getting down to the business of positioning Labour in a more strategic manner - much of this might have been in the making before him but he was a smart choice for the leader's office..

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9992233/Immigration-controls-t…

 

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Brilliant plan.

More effective and immediate control of money supply as it affects the spending power of all wage earners immediately rather than just those mortgage holders who mortgages roll over. This means more stable/neutral rates and a better business environment = jobs.

Long term neutral to net wealth rather than bleeding billions of interest offshore.

Moderated and more stable exchange rate good for exporters and jobs.

I think there needs to be some concessions for lower income earners and self employed - perhaps raise tax thresholds. 

Haters please share some logical downsides and mitigating tactics

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The poor to the rescue of the rich again ? The Nat lovers and the rich homeowners would love this plan. I can see Labour coming to power with a large majority on the basis of this scheme alone...

The politicians/economists always talk of the bigger picture, but what they are really concerned is the smaller picture of what beneftis them now and in the next election..The public always falls for the con and loses.

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Good to see Labour thinking outside the box, but falls wide of the mark for mine. I think Parker contradicts himself by talking about our rampant house price inflation and then moaning about where mortgage rates are heading. Would he prefer lower mortgage rates to further drive house price inflation? Can't have it both ways Parker!

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I think they are also using political spin to try to sell this. They are saying NZ has the highest interest rates in  the world, but the interest rates are far lower no than they  were when labour was in power. They are also artificallyy low now due to the GFC. Also NZ has some of the highest building material prices, and food prices, due to lack of competition, but are they doing anything about those. If we could build houses cheaper, then people wouldn't need to get a big a mortgage. I see merits in that the money stays in NZ, rather than going to overseas banks, but that is partly caused by us selling our banks in the first place overseas. We do also have some NZ owned banks now, so that arguement doesn't hold for those banks.

 

The problem is that people these days prefer to borrow to get what they want now, rather than save and wait to buy it. This plan promotes that ' want it now' mentalility. 

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Point 1

The truth is that government pension schemes have untold unfunded liabilities for future generations. In the USA apparently its $1 Trillion! It is likely the government is in the exact same position. Hence why there has been some limited debate on raising the super age. This poses a risk for younger tax payers who are paying full wack tax, but may not receive entitlements that their parents have been entitled to and will receive.

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/finance_etc/2014/02/how-do-we-pa…

Point 2

2 out of 3 active fund managers fail to beat their benchmark index.

Point 3

In Australia, you can set up a Do it Yourself Superfund if you have $200,000. Rather than paying some greedy fund manager to mismanage your funds when statistically they are terrible.

I believe if Superannuation is to be compulsory, then you should be able to manage it yourself.

 

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There is every chance a very large portion of those unfunded liabilities will never be paid out.  It might be better to call it an unfunded promise rather than a debt in an accounting sense.

 

The Australian regulations are a good lesson in point because the framework changes with every change of government.  There is a strong possibility self managed super funds will be reglated out of existence in due course.

 

Did you notice the high cost of labour in Australia is steadily driving a large part of the IT industry to Bangalore.  I am sure the cost (to employers) of that extra 12% for super isn't having a positive effect for younger Australians.  Even large Australian banks, that exst only through government largesse, show no loyalty to the local population and have shifted huge parts offshore.

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Have the experts actually run all the numbers on this plan?

My opinion is that it in a way bails out people who have borrowed too much to buy overpriced NZ houses. The fact is that many won't be able to afford higher mortgage payments. This means that it will only help to fuel that bubble. It also means that people are forced to put a percentage of their income into a retirement scheme where the withdrawal age is dictated by the super entitlement age, which the government can change at a whim. Rather than having you own private savings scheme, where you can remove money when you need it for certain events, such as for a new home. The current kiwi saver scheme only allows deduction of some of the money for first homebuyers. It does have some merits, but it is also very controlling, and presumes NZs don't have the self-control to save themselves. Some don’t but they should penalize everyone. Remember that back in the late 90's NZs overwhelmingly  scheme voted against a similar  compulsory retirement saving scheme. When a government brings in a new scheme like kiwi saver, which was always advertised as being voluntary, it doesn’t take long for it to slide to a compulsory. This is why I am wary of any plans by governments to introduce new forms of taxes. e.g. if a CGT came in with Labour, how long before it applies to all houses, and the government uses Australia as justification for that. They have already used Australia as justification for compulsory kiwi saver, as Australia has compulsory retirement savings at a far higher percentage. But Australia also has a deposit guarantee scheme, and NZ is one of the only countries without one, which doesn’t promote saving in any way. I am guessing if kiwisaver becomes compulsory the government may need to guarantee it.

 

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As proposed this is nothing more than a hidden tax.

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There is a new form of tax coming out of Wellington and it is making headline news and making people cross.

It is a new Wellington logo, without the cross, but costing a packet, which makes the ratepayers cross and the idiot Public Servant talk at cross-purposes, almost with religious fervour.

Though the cross was not religious, it was symbolic, but only an idiot would know the difference.

That the cross is not warranted, yet they still have to pay to print more logos than a Public Servant can bear, is making a cross to bear for each and every ratepayer, logo or not.

Doubling up on the costs is just making me cross.

Windy Wellington, and a big talk fest on such a nonsensical subject is bad enough without all this who-ha.

Hence where I step in. I can talk and type rubbish with he best of them.

For instance....

They have more wind coming out of the Behive and out of the mouths of idiotic Civil Servants than we should have to put up with. And it is an ill-wind, that blows no one any good.

I say change the logo to read, once and for all Wellingtonians, nay all New Zealanders to see.

"We are all at cross-purposes in Windy Wellington, so we do not know whether we are coming or going, just ask a Ratepayer, a Taxpayer, but never a Public Disgrace, it is all just hot air'"

By the way, my Capital ideas are free and no charge. No kidding.

Unlike the last two logos, that cost heaps and should be childs play to do, someone made a killing and it was not me, but any kid could have a crack.

We could put it on the new NZ flag too, no charge, kill two birds with one stone.

We could tell the World, just how stupid we really are, people might follow us, follow the flag and rally around.

No small wonder we have problems here abouts, it all starts in Wellington, then spreads worldwide.

No free thinkers, no free enterprise, certainly no free damn logos or fee free Public minded citizens in this life of over paid public servitude.

And who is paying....you and I are.

Tis a cross we all have to bear.

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I can't see how thiss is going to stop money going to overseas owned banks, and intead going into your kiwisaver. Banks will just put their rates or fees up to offset any losses, so it will cost people more. Banks aren't going to lose money over this.

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