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Too few to win, too many to die: it is looking more and more as if the National Party’s conservative falcons can no longer hear the falconer, Chris Trotter says

Public Policy / opinion
Too few to win, too many to die: it is looking more and more as if the National Party’s conservative falcons can no longer hear the falconer, Chris Trotter says
Luxon-Willis

By Chris Trotter*

I don't blame Simon Bridges for quitting. Seeing the people who toppled him from National’s throne positioning themselves alongside the man now sitting on it didn’t leave much room for doubt. Time to go.

But if Bridges is now free to pursue new opportunities and spend more time with his young family, the National Party itself cannot feel so sanguine. Putting aside the fact that Bridges was one of the very few members of National’s front bench with senior cabinet experience, he was also the leader of the party’s conservative faction.

 While Bridges held the Finance Spokesperson’s role, National’s conservatives could tell themselves they possessed a powerful friend at the court of King Christopher. It’s hard to engage in serious political planning without the money-spinner in attendance. The conservatives may have been down, but they weren’t out.

Well, they’re out now.

Clearly, Bridges had been coming out of National’s inner circle feeling less and less like a man who was being taken seriously. Yes, he was there at Luxon’s side, but the person whose ideas were really influencing National’s new leader was the same person who had steered John Key towards victory in the run-up to the 2008 General Election – Nicola Willis. Put that together with Luxon being Key’s protégé, and it’s not hard to see why Bridges might feel he’d become more Ludo token than chess piece.

 And now Willis is both the Deputy-Leader of the National Party and its Finance Spokesperson. At No. 3 we find another fierce liberal, Chris Bishop. Notwithstanding his conservative Christian beliefs, Luxon should, henceforth, be seen as a liberal leader. National is coming for Auckland, and Auckland cannot be won by a scary social-conservative.

It’s the strategy Willis sold Key when she was his “Special Adviser” back in 2008, and it is the strategy she is selling Luxon now. It’s a good strategy. New Zealanders are not extremists. They actually like messing around with Mr In-Between.

Which just leaves the conservatives.

For a long time now, National’s biggest political problem has been the uneven speed at which New Zealand’s population has embraced the social changes of the past forty years. There are parts of New Zealand – the inner suburbs of Auckland and Wellington, for example – where social-liberalism is so deeply entrenched that an openly conservative candidate standing for either major party would have little chance of winning an electorate seat. In provincial and rural New Zealand, however, the “wokeism” of the latte-drinkers of Wellington and Auckland Central is despised.

It’s a circle which National is finding it increasingly difficult to square.

The scale of National’s problem is dramatically demonstrated by dividing the post-war period into roughly equal halves. The first half is distinguished by the enormous difficulties Labour experienced in winning elections. Between 1949, the year the First Labour Government fell, and 1984: a period of three-and-a-half decades; Labour held office for just six years.

The median New Zealand voter of that era tended to be materially comfortable and determinedly risk-averse. The country’s social values were conservative and not subject to serious challenge. Yes, there was a “Youth Revolt”, but it made little impression electorally. Older New Zealanders were unimpressed.

That first half was also the era of the Cold War. A time when even Labour’s “democratic socialists” struggled to shake off the suspicion that they were far too close to “communists” for the country’s comfort. (Is that why, after 1984, so many Labour MPs happily jettisoned democratic socialism for “Rogernomics”?)

Certainly, things changed radically for the National Party after 1984. Gone were the days when National could reasonably describe itself as “the natural party of government”. In the 38 years between 1984 and 2022, Labour has held office for twenty years, and the National Party for eighteen.

This roughly equal alternation is illustrative of just how dramatically New Zealand has been changed by the events of the latter half of the post-war period. The stolid, conservative New Zealand, with its widely shared values (and prejudices) has not disappeared entirely, but it is now too small – especially in the context of the MMP electoral system – to serve as the foundation of a successful mainstream party.

Following its disastrous 2002 defeat, National’s solution to this problem was to persuade its hardcore conservatives to hold their noses and stick with the only party capable of holding the line against the increasingly radical social policies of the Labour Party and the Greens. Critical to this task was the below-the-radar support of the conservative Christian churches and the Maxim Institute. They shepherded their flocks into National’s sale-yards: helpfully dissuading them from diluting the right-wing vote by wasting conservative support on parties unlikely to crest the 5 percent MMP threshold.

It is even possible that the quid-pro-quo for this unheralded support was a quiet undertaking to select conservative Christian candidates for safe National seats, thereby baking-in the Christian Right’s political agenda where it mattered most – National’s parliamentary caucus.

As solutions go, this one was obviously short-term. Too many conservative Christians in National’s caucus, especially Christians determined to give legislative effect to their beliefs, and the party would become unelectable. But not before it had torn itself to pieces internally.

Throw into this dangerous god-spell the global impact of Brexit and Trump – both made possible by the even more dangerous sorcery of the Internet and its social-media wizards. The resulting global surge towards right-wing populism called into serious question the despised centre’s ability to hold. For good measure, Mother Nature then conjured-up a global pandemic. Once that happened, it was just a matter of sitting back and waiting for things to fall apart – all over Parliament Grounds.

Last week a group of rural-provincial blokes – looking for all the world as if they’d just stepped off the set of Fear The Living Dead – took to social media with a heartfelt appeal for their fellow blokes to stand up and fight back (presumably electorally) against the horrors of “Jabcinda” and her tyrannical government. At the same time, the anarchist editor of The Daily Blog, Martyn Bradbury, venturing boldly into the wilder realms of speculation, was inviting his readers to ponder the consequences of a Winston Peters-Judith Collins-led NZ First. One can only imagine how Act would react to that!

 Too few to win, too many to die: it is looking more and more as if the National Party’s conservative falcons can no longer hear the falconer.

Nicola Willis’s plan for containing National’s Christian conservatives worked like a charm for John Key in 2008, but can she and Christopher Luxon truly control the rough right-wing beasts that are already slouching towards the 2023 election to be born?


*Chris Trotter has been writing and commenting professionally about New Zealand politics for more than 30 years. He writes a weekly column for interest.co.nz. His work may also be found at http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com.

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104 Comments

 If there is to be a change in 2023, it will be because Labour has been voted out. The mere & simple purpose of that objective, will unite solidly any of the factions described here, in a stark case of whatever it takes.

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16

Agreed Foxglove it will be a protest vote , the danger of which will be a minor party holding the balance of power eg Maori party god help us (from a non believer) . National needs to listen to the electorate , an acolyte in John Key backed by the Chow brothers is not a good start.  

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7

MMP puts the balance of power into minor parties ... but , mostly they've been responsible with that power ... or been bribed off as Winston was in 2017 ... 

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3

Where it is different now is that National now have with ACT,  a viable coalition partner. That has been absent for the last few elections. That  meant National needed to win an outright majority, which is not supposed to happen under MMP, but ironically this was achieved by Labour last time.  Be that as it may, National will be going into next year’s election from a decidedly better position than the last two.

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3

John Key did bring in the Maori Party ... and , I think that worked fairly well for everyone ... the point of MMP is to avoid the current situation , where one party wins outright , and runs amok ... as Ardern & her motley lot are ...

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7

During that time in government with National I came to admire & respect the Maori Party, particularly their two co-leaders in Tarania Turia & Pita Sharples. From my contacts I understand a lot was achieved and progressed, much more so than if they had declined to join the Key government. It seems a pity that the wide body of the Maori electorate did not think that was enough. Would be interesting to canvass those voters now,  and see if the swing back to Labour has been any better?

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5

They also pioneered working closely with gang leaders, including schemes they then shrieked about when following governments continued them.

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0

Tend to agree Foxy. I think Labour is working hard at losing the election. To change this they need to step up big time and soon, but so far they've burned almost all their good graces with the public.

Is this then a chance for an outlier?

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6

Sadly voters as a group have the memory of a goldfish. So still heaps of time for labour.

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15

Yep the fact that Labour got in for a second term is proof of that. Useless the first term and still got back in. Still useless in the second term but still in with a chance for a third. Cannot feel sorry for Labour voters who whine that this country is going down the toilet.

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8

The won because NZ's COVID experience has been much better than many other countries. And because the opposition was in disarray, full of spiteful infighting, and looked only reactionary and nonsensical on COVID.

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0

So what has your great memory recalled for the achievements of a national government?

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11

Oh come on that's not fair. No one has that good a memory.

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11

I remember them being slammed as lazy, do-nothing denialists by Labour who still made more inroads in housing than Labour did with Kiwibuild.

Always a bit of a bummer when people hold you to your own standards, eh.  

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4

Don't get me wrong, I am not a Labour supporter, but I would love to hear what the inroads National made with housing were?

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11

I think you will find from m1999 - 2008, house prices increased 113% under Labour, that was slashed under Key's National.

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1

Demonstrably false.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123527809/which-prime-ministers-oversa…

 

On the whole Labour is slightly worse than National. But both are garbage. 

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2

Yeah those unaffordable houses became more unaffordable that's why John Key sold his house after he left government. He thought he did his bit to make NZ housing as unaffordable as he could, made his cash. He was wrong his work of rampant immigration and stoking the fires of FOMO there was a lot of wood left on the fire. Labour being to scared to slow it down did naff all as well. But I blame John Key for pouring petrol and adding as much fuel as he could. Is labour any better not sure about that either, both have had there issues. I'm voting for neither.

As an older guy who remembers crates for 15 bucks, big bottles for 4 bucks in a pub and handles for $2 bucks, while housing was 3 times income and getting to Auckland took 45 mins and now an hour and a half. To me it has been in the last 20 years where the damage has been done. That too me was John Key who started it and now supported by labour. Governments are suppose to make the country better, both have failed. But National have been worse in my mind.

 

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18

The last 20 years? You'll naturally be upset about the prices rises under Labour from 2002 to 2008, which was only slowed by the GFC then? Of course not, it's all John Key's fault, even the bits from before he was even elected to Parliament!

Give me strength. 

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4

So no examples of National's inroads on housing then?

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6

None, and that is why they were turfed out and Labour brought in.

Now five years after the "crisis", people are actually talking about prices going back to 2017 as a good thing.

So we can summarise that the only thing Labour have actually achieved on the housing crisis is making people realise they should have stuck with National.

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4

Lol Noncents, I find my investments always increase way more money under Labour Governments than I do National! And hilariously, people still vote for Labour even though they get screwed over by them. But hey, you can fool some of the people all of the time!

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1

The Auckland Unitary Plan? The Axis affordable housing scheme (which delivered more houses than Kiwibuild did for a considerable period of time)? ThinCap rule changes? Phasing out LAQCs? Nixing depreciation on appreciating assets? LVRs? Brightlines? 

The problem with objectively looking at what National did is that you have to admit that Labour, who spent nine years deriding them for doing nothing, used that time to come up with a hot garbage unrealistic bait and switch called Kiwibuild that was totally unworkable and have managed to do even less. If National was a 'do nothing' government then Labour is somehow a 'do even less' one. 

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5

True that GV. The acceleration became noticeable about then. Helen Clark and Michael Cullen denied and ignored it, and the foreign buyers. But really the real point is is that there is not a lot of difference between National and Labour, so really these discussions should focus on an analysis of any policy they put forward as a comparison, rather than rehashing history?

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5

No, but it doesn't stop some people here trying to pretend that John Key personally invented homelessness and that everything was going just super right up until November 2008. 
 

(My theory is that Cullen was happy with rising home prices as people spent more as they felt wealthier and were less inclined to bitch about him slamming them with a 39% rate at $60,000+), which was obscene.

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Mainly John Key but hey you can vote for me, and form my opinions for me. Then you will have two votes. So give me strength and I will have my own vote, and form my own opinions, based on my circumstances. I can even drink my own beer and form a conversation believe it or not. Or shall we just do what you want.

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3

You're entitled to your own opinion mate, but not your own facts. Sorry for pointing out some basic parts of your misplaced anger don't really gel with reasonably recent history. You can think what you like, as can I, but I'm also able to point out revisionism when I see it. 

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3

The Northern Toll road for starters, would have been canned by Labour had it not already been started. Labour has been great at spending the money with consultants instead, hey lets have yet another go at that harbour bridge cycle path. Labour cannot tie their own shoe laces without forming a working group on it first.

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11

short memory indeed have a look and john keys government did exactly the same with consultants, don't let that blue eyepatch stop you seeing both major parties are as bad as each other

Govt's consultants' bill $375m and rising

Govt's consultants' bill $375m and rising - NZ Herald

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7

Damn, this point about the government that hasn't been in power for nigh on five years sure invalidates any criticism of the one in power now with a majority not seen in the MMP era! 

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3

But when you're criticizing something that is pretty much "run of the mill" when it comes to Governments of both sides, then it probably does need to be invalidated.  It's like the old "so many working groups" chestnut.  Something which National also went to town on reaching 75 in their first 6 months.   

https://thestandard.org.nz/guest-post-how-many-working-groups-did-the-l…

2008 - 2009 Data ->  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f6wGvy1KkR08oFeNx97VKfOmHSHL-Ze…

2017 - 2018 Data -> https://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/Working%20groups%20and%20revi…

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I'm criticising the pathological inability to execute their own fantastical policy, despite the working groups. Appointing a bunch of WGs and then not enacting recommendations tends to stink a bit if you've used words like 'transformational' to get your bum in the chair in the first place.

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2

John Keys biggest regret about his time in office was not putting more effort into changing the flag design.

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1

My memory is good Torso.

 

1. After being handed an economy in recession for a year before the 08 election, and with Labour having increased Government spending by 50% and saddling the new Government with future spending, National guided the country through the GFC, without slashing and burning. And then bought the country's books back into black by 2014/15.

2. Despite 1., household incomes increased 42% to 2017. After tax wages increased twice as fast as those in Australia from 2008 - 2017

3. Manufacturing sector expanded for 57 consecutive months, and technology sector expanded to over $10bn of annual revenues.

4. Handled ChCh earthquakes efficiently including implementing the SCIRT program to repair roads and piping.

5. In 2008 MSD said there were 170,000 children living in poverty. By 2016 this number had shrunk to 135,000. 

6. Provided better public services: crime down 14% from 2008 and youth crime down 33%. And as one eg: rheumatic fever cases down 23% with 94% of 8 month old kids immunised.

7. Arrested electricity price rises through reforming the industry. Under Labour 2001 - 2008, prices increase 63.4%. Under National, until 2016, prices increased 24%.

8. Reformed welfare to reward independence and work

9. Turned around net migration after Labour led the way in the so called "brain drain".

10. Bought in National Standards which prevented the education system from being dumbed down and showed non-performing teachers up.

11. Left the incoming Labour Government with a strong and growing economy (which of course, they managed to fuck up in 1 and a half terms).

The list isn't exhaustive Torso, but I think that will do for now. 

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11

Excellent summary IVV! You forgot to include the other major earthquake that trashed the upper South Island costing many more billions to fix. Can you imagine the shambles the SH1 repairs would have been if Genter had been in power at the time! Don't get me wrong, I certainly did not agree with everything the Nat's did while in power and they sat on their hands in the 3rd term when they should have been bold. But overall I think they handled their 9 years in power reasonably well. Current bunch of muppets will absolutely go down as our worst ever government!

I find it utterly fascinating that so many people  praise comrade Adhern for her handling of the mosque shootings and White Island. What exactly did she do?

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4

"comrade Adhern (sic)...in two words you show your bias.

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4

Yes vman, fully, totally, absolutely biased!!! Judging  by your comments I presume you are part of her PR team.

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2

Just trying to look at the world through both eyes,rather than just one....you need a few contrarian views in here as interest.co.nz is starting to sound like an echo chamber for NatstalkZB talk back callers.

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4

She hugged a few people.

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1

In reality she used diplomatic skills to defuse what could have been a volatile situation.

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3

Point 4 is where you lose all credibility.

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1

And if there is any left it's lost at point 10.

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0

Cycleways, UFB, tax administration simplification, and getting TG started (among other important road projects). Social investment and Charter Schools could have been transformational, had Labour allowed them to continue rather than ideologically axing them (SHA is another that had potential but for being a "National idea"). Sure, the National Party has problems (many problems!) but this idea that they achieved nothing and only made New Zealand more miserable is incorrect. Generally, it was a competent administration who failed in two areas: getting the immigration mix wrong (for too long) and not empathising quickly enough with the electorate's pains with housing (although, arguably, their focus on supply was correct and the increased supply, particularly in Auckland, is going to be a large part of the coming crash and future market softness).

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5

Some good points I can agree with. But I would add that very important fail being the environment.  The intensive dairying in Canterbury and the like being the rockstar fail.

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3

Labour prime minister Helen Clark agreed with Craig Norgate to form Fonterra as a farmers co-op ...against opposition from the Commerce Commission ... that decision eventually led to mass conversions to dairy farming chasing the milky rivers of gold ... drying up Canterbury rivers & polluting them .... it assuredly was not the Gnats ...

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8

True, sort of.  But where Canterbury rivers are concerned, in order to finally get irrigation implemented - it was Key's government who fired the regional council and put in the 'fixer', Dame Margaret.  Job got done.  No turning back.

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0

... I hear some lifelong Labour voters calling up the talkback radio stations to unleash upon the Gnats & ACT ... these Labourites haven't just got the memory of a goldfish , they've got the personalities to match .... 

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3

Makes a change from Nat voters whining on Natstalk ZB

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2

The next election & NZs future will be decided on the single issue of Maori co governance: all the rest is background noise

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21

National will win the next election along with Act. Co-governance is a total non-starter. If you think the push-back over three waters is bad, wait till any sort of serious attempts at some sort of co-governance stupidity starts.

No-one seriously thinks that the current crop of incompetents in combination with another group of people with no democratic authority, and zero governance experience would be better for the country than what we have now.

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9

......except for the labour government, and the tribal elites. They think co-governance is an is an ace idea. Still, nothing will get done, they will still get paid and they can blame each other for their own uselessness.

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6

Well, National is a bought and sold member of the co-governance club, which Labour was initially against:

...In 2010, led by then Māori Party co-leader and Māori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples as part of the John Key-led National government, New Zealand committed support to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

This came after New Zealand initially, in 2007, resisted signing up to the declaration under Helen Clark's Labour government, which said it didn’t fit with New Zealand’s own constitutional arrangements and Treaty of Waitangi settlement processes.

But, over the years New Zealand has further entrenched its support to implement the declaration – in 2014, under National, New Zealand committed to a plan of action.

Fast forward to August 2019 and a Declaration Working Group (DWG) was set up by the Labour-New Zealand First coalition to devise a plan and vision for what it might all look like come 2040...

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/he-puapua-the-report-dividing-parliament

 

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1

Yep National will win.

The economy will deteriorate significantly before the election.

 

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3

Plus Law and Order.

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3

Absolutely. There is a slow motion coup in drag underway with a small group of bigots determined to make the current generation pay for the sins of the past.

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1

Interesting thought, and of course Chris L wants to contest the Māori seats - something the National Party has never done before, I believe.

 

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1

NZ has a very doomed future under any home brewed parties.

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2

xing,

 Since we are doomed under any 'home brewed parties', I can't wait for you to tell us where we should look for a solution.

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3

Taiwan ! ... they seem to do very well for an isolated  small island with limited natural resources , and with a grumpy  giant next door neighbour .... the parallels with us are eerie .... hmmm .... 

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3

I am a financial conservative, you know, low tax, low spend, small government which does not run on debt.  Citizens expected to work and look after themselves, strong benefit support, but only to the genuinely challenged. 

Business back to business and not yelling for a subsidy at every ripple of income.

I also believe in markets, although there is an oxymoron there, because once in place the big market players do everything in their power to surpress competition.  Local bodies, fuel, supermarkets, banks

So 'markets' can only be achieved by strong control.  Crush the duoplys, reduce the Wellington crew size by 75%. 

I am a nationalist, so citizens should have first place.  We need to be owners not borrowers.   Beef up Kiwisavers to phase out super over 40 years. 

Every ineffiency needs rooted out, because it  disadvantages all of us in our health and disabilty services Those need the anchors of tradition and professions controlled challenged. 

I don't see National has much interested in these things. 

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16

You need to put a hell of a deal on the table if I'm going to be paying more of my own money into Kiwisaver as well as paying for other people's Super if I'm not going to be eligible for it when I retire. Gonna have to be even spicier considering many millennials will need to stare down negative equity and climate change costs at some point, and Australia's higher pay, more generous super schemes and cheaper living costs are only a two hour flight away. 

NZ needs to stop acting like it has a monopoly on its citizenry. The reality is that they are in competition for our skills and know-how, and if people aren't prepared to pay Kiwis enough to get by then they can't act shocked when they leave en masse.

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6

KH,

Fine. But with a low spend government, are you seriously asking me to believe that all our infrastructure needs from decent water/sewer systems, roads, schools, healthcare etc, can be met just from the efficiencies you expect to be achieved?

From my perspective,  it looks as though what you really want is to pay much less tax, but you don't want to appear quite so crass.I too would love to pay less tax, but I really really want a well functioning society and that takes cash, lots of it.

Let me give you one small example; Pharmac. After I was diagnosed with a stage 4 renal cancer last year, It very quickly became apparent that my only hope lay in a couple of drugs, neither of which is funded in NZ. Their cost is in excess of $100,000. Now, I am in the fortunate position of being able to afford that, but sadly, the vast majority of Kiwis could not. We lag well behind many countries in our spend on many drugs. If you are sufficiently interested, look at the Medicine Gap. It might shock you.

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Pharmac is one bit of how far back we're falling. I believe the UK has some pretty nifty beam machines for focusing on tumor disruption that we don't which work pretty well with combination immunotherapies, but we can't afford them, nor the radiologists to run them. I mean we can, we just don't think it's important enough to fund.

Probably time to have an honest conversation about what is doable on taxation levels that don't involve taking more and more from people who have to make their paycheques stretch further and further, and a seriously critical look at the value we get from ministry backrooms has to be part of it. As is how much we can realistically extract from taxpayers who now face having less disposable incomes after rents and mortgages, which we've now locked in at massively high levels. 

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2

Linklater: Pharmac.  A brilliant operation, designed to provide the most for the most people.  Yes there are many things that don't make the cut.  What you perhaps don't realise is that all of our health services neccessarily limit what they do.

Pharmac is a careful proper process.  The rest of health service restrictions are decided by weird traditions and professionals self interest.  Not only do you miss out on lots of health service and not told about it, there is an extraordinary posrcode lottery in New Zealand. 

As for 'the medicine gap', you fell for it there, it's a marketing term created on behalf of Big Pharma, to destroy Pharmac, because it restricts  profits.  They successfully have put attention onto goverment funding and away from their extortionate pricing (before you even mention their research spend, read that up.  Little is original, but vast amounts on replicating others moneymaking drug)

Back to the original point, are National or the others interested in sorting this on behalf of NZers?  No

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"You fell for it" geez can't imagine these people desperate with a likely fatal diagnosis under our current system might want access to medicine? Nope, turns out it's just marketing! 

You can't rage against the machine if you're dead.

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GV27.   Yep.  You might die as the result of a Pharmac decision.   But much more likely it's because of extortionate drug company pricing.   And fewer overall die because Pharmac exists.

Continue to fall for the Drug company line 'the medicine gap' if you like.   Because it suits them to have your attention away from their pricing.

And lets ignore the number of people who die every day because of the New Zealand outrageous post code lottery in access to services for serious illness.   You will want to ignore it of course because you don't value the need to manage it properly.

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"The medicine gap" isn't a marketing scam if you need medicine and can't get it, it's a reality. Tell you what, if I die from a treatable disease than I'll admit that I'm wrong. 

But what would I know, I just live with a chronic condition that can be actually treated overseas so people can live a normal life - but not here. 

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Ever heard of private health insurance? I could afford it if I weren't being taxed so much...

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Out of interest, Australian tax rates;

$0 – $18,2000%Nil

$18,201 – $45,00019%19c for each $1 over $18,200

$45,001 – $120,00032.5%$5,092 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $45,000

$120,001 – $180,00037%$29,467 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000

$180,001 and over45%$51,667 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

Note: These rates do not include the Medicare levy of 2%.

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3

I'm no Lab supporter and Nat lost me under Key. 

Lab can still do this, particularly now housing is correcting.  Big prize to claim there alone.

Nat are offering exactly what? More immigration, foreign ownership and pollution?

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21

There is no way in hell that Labour should be voted back in. I still think they will continue to crash in the polls and Adern will quit before the next election citing something like the popular "Spending more time with the family" line.

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12

That line has already been used by Simon...

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What is Labour offering that they can actually do? So far they are basically doing what National did but acting like making everyone poorer is somehow a better outcome.

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Which is why I will give TOP both my votes again. If you want change, voting for a main party is a wasted vote. 

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19

Yet somehow still not as much of a wasted vote as TOP...

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4

Sadly untrue but so long as it's repeated the big two in particular win and nothing changes.

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correct we need stronger smaller parties as the two largest parties are pretty much the same with slight differences, just look at the votes to pass bills in the house most of the time they both vote yes, it is normally the smaller parties that vote against a bill 

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It'd be more relevant if TOP could come up with some sane policy and stop pretending people who don't like theirs aren't smart enough to understand it, when in reality we do get it and it just kind of sucks. Parties can't best represent my interests if they're determined to float failed convoluted complex policy over and over again and don't even make it to the table - so yea, a wasted vote. Guess who can change that? Hint: It's TOP. 

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0

only 12 months ago collins and bridges were back-stabbing each other for the leadership and now they are both in the dustbin.luxon and willis are property investors ,that have done well out of it ,may have limited appeal to the 40% of voters who are renting.the vaccine mandates will be gone,the tourists and students back labour have rewritten our history and now may be able to regain their popularity in time for the election if national have peaked too soon.

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5

Unfortunately the people that really need to vote for change don't vote.......  so we will get more muddling governance from National and Labour for another few decades yet.

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Imagine the scenes in 10 to 15 years when a  lot of us boomers have moved to the next dimension and todays well educated and tech savy young ones rule. The rural conservative group is shrinking fast and is struggling to understand they no longer hold the power or ever will again.

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Yes but the well educated and tech savvy younger ones will probably have emigrated somewhere else and we will be left with more career politicians.

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What about the new kid on the block? Ex- Nationalist MP Matt King. Democracy NZ.

Get rid of Winston, too self centered, from NZ First and hopefully they can drum up someone with as much charisma as Winston but without the Winston First moniker.

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Democracy NZ.  Saw his announcement. 

Seems to be the 'No Mandate' party but trying not to say so. 

Never will get my vote. 

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Chris : you know full well that the Gnats won't " win " the next election ... they'll gain power because Jacinda loses it  .... And she is .... with a remarkable run of missteps & mistakes ... even Covid , the golden key to her winning the 2020 election is now slipping out of her control ... 

 ... in 2017 , Winston Peter's gifted her the throne of Prime Minister .... looking back , what has been achieved .... record house prices , inflation taking off , strikes  , protests  , poverty & crime rates soaring  .... even the Gnats under Bill English's leadership would not have been this awful as a government ...

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Out of interest,if Winston had gone with the Nats...would he be considered to have "gifted" the election to the Nats?

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... no , because their share of the party vote was much greater than Labour's ... the public leaning was clearly towards the Gnats ...

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Have you heard of MMP...obviously the Nats and many others haven't...first past the post is no longer with us.

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Ah well, if your policies don't match. 

 

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Let's hope that whoever wins, is not too involved in business/other pursuits. Lest compromised by a foreign adversary.

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A prediction: The South Island will become an independent country within 50 years.

I have lived in both islands and in recent years and the difference in culture between the two is widening I believe. In coming decades there will be an increasing focus on energy and food which will give the catalyst for the South wanting to go their own way.

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If the South Island wants to fund its own civil services from their own limited population then good luck to them. Just don't expect assistance from the North when the Alpine Fault unzips like they got with Chch. It's hard to imagine a more ballsed-up response than the one they got, but it would probably be far more likely if they had to fund it entirely themselves. 

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Just sell their energy to the North - that would fund plenty.

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You'd have to charge it at such a rate that it would create a massive incentive for the NI to develop its own capacity, which it has the population base to fund. So now you have too much energy and no one to sell it to. Your move :) 

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... all we need is to construct a small nuclear power plant on the outskirts of Auckland ... cut the electricity cable from the south island , use all the surplus hydro power to create green hydrogen to power our nation's vehicles ... win/win ...

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With so many CC proponents and non nuclear types in the NI they could close down Huntly and any other  gas fired power stations and build lots of unreliable wind and solar farms. Maybe the odd geothermal. With rolling planned blackouts candle light dinners will be the flavour amongst the chardonnay crowd doing their bit.

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What? You think food and energy is important. Couldn't be further from the truth, populations where its at, you need a critical level of population to have a decent economy. I know this cause I've heard economists say so for many many years. Primary industries contribute almost nothing to GDP. Auckland is the driver of our economy, the South Island would shrivel without it.

Sorry I should have written in caps.

Bad part is some may think I'm serious rather than sarky. Worst part is some believe it.

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... lest we forget ... the north island produces ample food , more than enough to survive healthily without us southerners  ... and , there's screeds of untapped geothermal energy  available  , plus offshore nat gas ... boot Jacinda out & its game on ... Really cannot understand this mental divide about us being separate people ... 

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Yeah, I'm sure Ngai Tahu will be well on board for that. Oh, have they ben asked?

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I disagree with the premise the provinces are staunchly socially conserative. Nor do we have a bible belt , there may be a few towns/ villages, but nothing electorate size. Closest might be parts of Auckland. but nothing like Southern USA. just look to the election of Georgina Beyer, and Tim Shadbolt. 

Nz elections are always economic , enviroment , and race issues . Even if the christian parties could stop fraud and sex scandals that seem to plaque them , they would struggle to get much more than 5%.

The main divide nowadays , those who have property , and those that don't.   

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The main issue with these demographic parties (e.g. Māori Party, Christian Party Outdoors party) is that they suffer from the delusion that the people they claim to represent are actually diverse. So yes Māori can vote National, Christians can vote ACT and anti-1080 types can vote Labour because people are individuals as well as a demographic

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Conehead and Airhead steering the Natanic towards the nearest iceberg.A party with a dying support base . Why would anyone under 40 vote for them?  

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A very informative and persuasive article. 

But "from Ludo token to chess piece" !  I mean, I don't think that in the age of computer games many readers will have heard of Ludo;  I have to think back over 65 years to remember board games like Ludo, Chinese Checkers, and Pick-Up-Sticks (the latter not a board game).  The only board game still remembered would be Monopoly.  I can't even remember how Ludo was played but as a child I can still picture the family ranged around the Ludo board on the lounge carpet in front of the fire on a winter's evening, either playing or watching. Radio existed but wasn't social. Then TV killed the board game and almost the radio as well.

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The Nats are one big yawn fest, and as far as I can see offer absolutely nothing new. In fact, all I see, is they want to actually go backwards.

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