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Why Finance Minister Bill English is more positive about NZ's current account deficit track than Treasury; 'World will punish us if it hits 7-8% of GDP'

Currencies
Why Finance Minister Bill English is more positive about NZ's current account deficit track than Treasury; 'World will punish us if it hits 7-8% of GDP'

By Alex Tarrant

Foreign lenders will punish New Zealand if the current account deficit gets back to the 7-8% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) range seen last decade, Finance Minister Bill English says.

Appearing before Parliament's Finance and Expenditure Select Committee on Wednesday, English said that kind of level would likely force a sharp adjustment in the exchange rate and interest rates in New Zealand.

But he was optimistic that the deficit - the difference between what New Zealand earns from the rest of the world and pays out to it - would peak lower than what forecasters like the IMF and Treasury were projecting.

Treasury forecasted in the May Budget that the current account deficit would head back to 6.7% of GDP in the year to March 2016 from a low of 1.9% of GDP in 2010, which itself had come down from over 8% between 2006 and 2009.

Treasury will release an updated set of forecasts in its Half Year Fiscal Update on December 18.

The latest current account figures from Statistics New Zealand for the year to June 2012 showed a deficit of 4.9% of GDP, just off the 5% mark ANZ economists warned was the "danger zone" where international creditors would take much more notice of the economy’s external liabilities.

More optimistic

English has consistently been saying over the last year that he expects the current account deficit to peak lower than what Treasury was forecasting, drawing questions from Labour Party MPs on the Committee as to why he thought that.

“What do you base your prediction on? Evidence, data, crystal ball, best guess?” Labour's Clayton Cosgrove asked.

“I’m just a bit more optimistic, that’s all,” English said.

“Forecasters work on...wherever you are, they forecast that you’re going to go back to the average or the norm.

“Their view about New Zealand is that we have a persistently high current account deficit, so they always forecast we’re going to go back to it. It’s like looking at their foreign exchange forecasts. They always forecast we’ll go back to the long-run average," English said.

“The fact is, we’re in a world that is pretty different, because everyone’s trying to reduce debt, and I think New Zealanders have responded in a fairly resilient way to the different pressures that are on them," he said.

“I think their savings behaviour is shifting. I think you’re starting to see some systemic change in the government, which ensures that its long-run savings behaviour’s going to be improved.

Punishment & optimism

“And I don’t think the world’s going to let us run seven and eight percent current account deficits. It just won’t. I think you’ll get the kind of sharp adjustment that the textbooks tell you would happen in the exchange rate or interest rates if that happened," English said.

“The world’s just not going to let us run an extreme current account deficit,” he said.

“That’s two reasons. One is I think the world will punish us more quickly if it gets out of line, and the other is, I’m a bit more optimistic about the way New Zealanders are adjusting to a deleveraging world.”

“If you exclude the earthquake [effect on Statistics New Zealand's current account deficit reporting] and we peak somewhere between five or six percent, then that’s quite a bit lower than the eight percent peak just three or four years ago.”

Second worst only to Greece

Earlier, Labour Party finance spokesman David Parker asked English whether it was a time to change settings that influenced investment and savings patterns, and the exchange rate, given that, "this year according to the IMF [New Zealand's current account deficit is] the second worst in the developed world after Greece, and next year it’s projected to be the worst in the developed world.”

English said he did not particularly agree with those views on the current account deficit.

“But time will tell.”

“I just think their views are a bit more negative than has turned out to be the case. All of these entities, for instance, forecast that New Zealand household savings behaviour wouldn’t change, and actually it’s changed quite dramatically,” English said.

“Looking ahead on the current account deficit, there’s a statistical issue which is the way that the statisticians have decided to record the impact of the earthquake. They don’t count the inflows, but they do count the spending. So they’re only counting the negative bit,” he said.

Parker noted about 1 percentage point of the forecast 6% current account deficit was expected to be earthquake related.

“Let’s say that’s all correct,” English said.

“Then you would end up with a current account deficit peaking at about 5%, at the time where nominal GDP will be fairly similar to that. That’s getting much closer than we used to be to what would be regarded as a rule of thumb for sustainability of it [the current account deficit]," he said.

“I think we’d all be worried if we saw an obviously unsustainable current account deficit building up external liabilities in a world where no one likes that much."

While there would be no dramatic turnaround in the direction the deficit was heading, the peak looked like it would be a bit lower than might have been expected a couple of years ago.

“In terms of policy settings, there aren’t too many long-run policy settings that you can alter dramatically. Because New Zealand’s had thirty years of these [current account deficits] and has had every argument about every variation on every possibility of policy settings," English said.

“Looking ahead, improvements in savings rates for the household sector, and for the government, are going to have an impact. Sound microeconomic policy that is going to help businesses in the export sector deal with the significant headwinds they face [is] going to make a difference," he said.

“Would it make a difference if you changed the [Reserve Bank’s] Policy Targets Agreement? No I don’t think it would, and I haven’t seen any convincing argument that it would.”

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17 Comments

Lala land. Does English really believe what comes out of his mouth? Take another comment today:

 

"Household incomes have increased by a third in the last four years, while average house prices have risen nationally by only 1.3 per cent in the same period, making recent real estate market buoyancy unsurprising, says Finance Minister Bill English....Our problem is one of success."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=108…

 

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No no wtf - Bill naturally assumes that the pay rises for Politicians is somewhat reflected in the national population. 

I read this too.  Although I couldn't see this was a direct quote to English or really bad journalism. 

For bill it's all a bit "let them eat cake". 

Bizarre that the are few taking our leadership to task on these matters.  If wasn't for interest.co.nz we'd be in deeper and deeper.

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No no wtf - Bill naturally assumes that the pay rises for Politicians is somewhat reflected in the national population. 

I read this too.  Although I couldn't see this was a direct quote to English or really bad journalism. 

For bill it's all a bit "let them eat cake". 

Bizarre that the are few taking our leadership to task on these matters.  If wasn't for interest.co.nz we'd be in deeper and deeper.

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I saw this comment as well, and wondered what on earth was the basis for it.

The following page at Stats NZ shows average weekly income of all adults in NZ in June 2008 of $682; and in June 2012 of $721. That is a nominal increase of 6%. Inflation in that time has been 15%, so there has been a real drop in individual incomes of ~9% in the four years.

While theoretically possible that households have increased in size by a third in terms of numbers of adults, that seems very implausible.

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/Income/NZInco…

 

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There is a real story here, re English saying property price increases are expected as 30% increase in wages.

I was listening to Newstalk ZB at about 6:15 tonight and Bill was being interviewed, he was asked about this comment and he said (something like)...

"30% increase after tax = increased house prices"... But this is an outrage effectively he's admitting to the government not charging enough tax to cover it's daily operations (16billion last year and 10.5 billion this year so on and so on).   And this lower level of taxing is going on a property price merry go round...

Effectively saying to the next generation that the government is happy to have some future tax payers to pick up the bill for their overspend subsidy of property (WWF, Interest Free Loans, Accomodation Support etc) and those same future tax payers are being priced out of the market. 

Bloody outrageous.

 

 

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There is a real story here, re English saying property price increases are expected as 30% increase in wages.

I was listening to Newstalk ZB at about 6:15 tonight and Bill was being interviewed, he was asked about this comment and he said (something like)...

"30% increase after tax = increased house prices"... But this is an outrage effectively he's admitting to the government not charging enough tax to cover it's daily operations (16billion last year and 10.5 billion this year so on and so on).   And this lower level of taxing is going on a property price merry go round...

Effectively saying to the next generation that the government is happy to have some future tax payers to pick up the bill for their overspend subsidy of property (WWF, Interest Free Loans, Accomodation Support etc) and those same future tax payers are being priced out of the market. 

Bloody outrageous.

 

 

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Easy answer Mr English, don't do what your Communist Chinese overlords tell you & instead keep the power companies in NZ ownership.  I realise they want our money flowing to them, but don't do it :)

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what foreign lenders, what are they lending us. If they are supposed to be lending us New Zealand Dollars - where did they get them from?

We sell stuff overseas we do not get paid in NZ dollars- we get paid in either the local currency or USD - no one wants to pay us in NZD why would they.

Foreign banks do not hold NZD where would they get them from. It does not make any sense.

Why not simply explain how the system works- that the NZD debt is typed into existence when we take out the loan.

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what foreign lenders, what are they lending us. If they are supposed to be lending us New Zealand Dollars - where did they get them from?

We sell stuff overseas we do not get paid in NZ dollars- we get paid in either the local currency or USD - no one wants to pay us in NZD why would they.

Foreign banks do not hold NZD where would they get them from. It does not make any sense.

Why not simply explain how the system works- that the NZD debt is typed into existence when we take out the loan.

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English may be right that we will peak at closer to 5% than say 8%; but why are we happy at 5%? And why be so passive about it, acting like there's nothing we can do? 5% is another ~ $10 billion a year of extra debt or loss of assets. If you target that rate, there is every chance that is where you will end up.

Target zero, and there's a better chance you will end up closer to that amount.

 

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ctnz,

Would be very happy to target a positive number, especially for a few years to play catch up. In time, given current account balances are a zero sum game among countries, I accept they should head towards zero.

Nevertheless zero is so much better than either Bill English or our bureaucrats could contemplate, that it would be a very good advance. See attached paper by the Reserve Bank where they talk of a desired current account deficit of over 3%. The rationale seems to be to keep our net debt at the same level of GDP as it is now; with no real justification of why that is a good target. If GDP were to go up; we should borrow or sell more assets to make sure our real wealth is not really growing, seems the RB mantra.

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/research/analytical/an2012_08.pdf.

There is by the by, some otherwise good analysis in the paper to suggest that the current account would respond to changes in the exchange rate. It kicks for touch though on whether  making such a change is something they want to manage.

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Stephen -  New car imports up 35%  over he last year.  Looks like 8% plus current account deficit and climbing. Compound interest working it's magic while we run a Ponzi scheme borrowing to pay the interest on the debt.

The end is inevitable - just a timing issue now.

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So I live in hope that somehow the fact the current account is now in the public domain; just might mean politicians will give up some of their populist short term policies.

It's not looking good though, I accept. And Bill English's other gut feels haven't had a good record recently; unemployment figures come to mind.

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English's comments on higher savings are only part of the equation.

A current account deficit is defined as the difference between savings and investment so even if we save more then spend it all on housing we could actually be worse off with a higher current account deficit.

We are now past the point of no return and can only await the inevitable descent into the debt vortex when lenders will awake to find those NZ $'s have slipped a little in value - as in back around the US 0.50 we saw just a few years ago.

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Quite agree. Those overseas buyers of overpriced Akld property will take a bath if they try to repatriate @ 50 to 60 cents US.

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The world won't let us run 7 - 8% CA deficits"

How does that work?

If the world decides we're a bad risk - effectively going backwards at 4% PA of nominal GDP you'd have to agree - what would they do? Well they'd raise our interest rates to reflect the risk. Now, given that the biggest chunk of our CA deficit is interest payments, a 5% rise in our interest rates could easily push the deficit into double figures. If  (or when) that happens we would be facing a major recession/depression  - falling GDP, a collapsing dollar, mass unemployment. Our prime private a public assets would become easy pickings for foreign investors - further adding to the deficit as profits are sucked offshore. A massive shock salvageable only by a huge (and unlikely) increase in export volumes and value. 

 

A major mess however you look at it, so WTF is Bill on about?

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..so WTF is Bill on about?

 

LOL - Maybe he is being economical with the truth - hoping to pull a few more money rich rorts at the expense of the citizens and retire disgracefully.

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