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BNZ chief economist Tony Alexander believes some home owners might be complacent about how far interest rates are set to rise

Property
BNZ chief economist Tony Alexander believes some home owners might be complacent about how far interest rates are set to rise

Some home owners are likely to be unprepared and in for a shock when interest rates start rising, BNZ chief economist Tony Alexander says.

He told interest.co.nz that because interest rates had been low in this country since late 2008 some people are likely to have become complacent.

The Reserve Bank is indicating it will be necessary to raise interest rates through the Official Cash Rate (OCR) from next year onwards to dampen emerging inflationary pressures. The central bank is suggesting that the OCR may be around 4.5% by 2016.

With average floating mortgage rates currently around 5.8%, a 2 percentage-point lift in the OCR would see mortgage rates likely lifting by about the same amount, to nearly 8%.

Alexander said it was possible floating mortgage rates might be around 6.8% by Christmas next year and he believed some people would not be prepared - simply because of how long interest rates have remained low.

"You’ve got a whole grouping of people who think maybe this is the new normal," he said.

"They see messages from overseas of growth downgrades, of central banks saying they are going to keep interest rates low for a long period of time.

"They’ve seen previous warnings - that maybe you need to get into fixed interest rates - prove not to be the best advice at times. And those who have stuck on floating will say, man, I’m just going to stay floating hereon out."

There may, therefore be  "a bit of complacency", Alexander said.

"And the thing to look for there will be as interest rates are rising, people saying: ‘They are only going to go up a little bit. The Reserve Bank isn’t going to raise them a lot and cause a recession in the New Zealand economy’

"…Yes, they will - if they think that’s what it is going to take to get inflationary pressures eventually under control. It’s not our forecast, but the risk is always on the upside over that interest rate cycle and I don’t see this time being any different."

So, did Alexander think some people might be shocked by the magnitude of the rate rises to come?

"I think there will be some shocked people who are sitting there right now assuming ‘nah, they are not going to be able to raise these rates for ages because the rest of the world is still looking relatively woeful’.

"[But] here in New Zealand we’ve got the biggest construction project in our history just getting under way at the moment. We’ve got continuing high commodity prices – a 2.3% equivalent boost to GDP from Fonterra dairy suppliers for this season for instance.

"So, a lot of positive factors that say our growth accelerates, unemployment rate comes down, wages growth accelerates, all these sort of things that add to inflation and eventually will cause concern for the Reserve Bank - not now, but 12,18, maybe 24 months down the track.”

Scope of rate rises

BNZ economists recently moved back the timing for when they expect the first hike in interest rates by the RBNZ from March to June next year. Alexander said this was mainly because of the effects of  a high Kiwi dollar. But they still believed fairly aggressive rate rises would be needed to combat future inflationary pressures.

"For now, pretty much like everyone else out there including the Reserve Bank, we forecast that the cash rate will rise about 2% [ultimately].

"The risk is it rises more than that.

"We’ve been at this point in the interest rate cycle a number of times before and what us economists tend to do is underestimate how much interest rates will rise.

"We always say ‘this time it’s different’ and by crikey, I’m saying definitely again, this time it’s different.

"So, maybe that means that the cash rate doesn’t peak at the old 6.5-8.5% area. Maybe it could peak at 5.5%.

"So, our official view is a 4.5%  peak. [But] I would run my numbers for people looking at borrowing money, assuming a 3% increase in mortgage rates - not just a 2%."

Ahead of the anticipated need for interest rate rises, the RBNZ introduced from October 1 "speed limits" on high loan-to-value lending (LVRs), which is primarily aimed at preserving financial stability, but with an eye also on taking some steam out of the housing market. See here for all articles relating to LVRs.

First home buyers abandon market

The latest BNZ-REINZ Residential Market Survey showed that the imposition of the LVR limits prompted would-be first home buyers to desert the market in droves.

"The first home buyers have basically hopped out of the market," Alexander said.

"..And it’s opened up the market for the investors, for foreign buyers – and so you still had in fact a net 6% of the agents [in the survey] saying 'we are seeing more investors in the market'."

Alexander said the negative reaction of the first home buyers was definitely stronger than he expected.

"...So that just leads me to think that there’s probably a large shock element that’s running through in the minds of these people.

"These people have never made a big financial decision like this before and so they are wary about how much maybe they can borrow etc, it’s a big decision to make."

'Running scared'

He believed, however, that a lot of the potential first-time buyers were just "running scared at the moment" and would be back into the market eventually.

"It will be reversed. It is just a matter of, we are not really sure how long it is going to take."

In terms of what he saw happening to the housing market in the next six months, Alexander said, it was "going to be a wee bit messy in terms of the indicators that we use". He then listed a number of factors that would underpin the housing market.

"I think we will start to see a return of the first home buyers, very slowly.

"I think we will definitely see a strengthening of the investor interest because that’s the pattern around the world.

"You’ve got continuing low interest rates in all countries out there.

"You’ve got central banks continuing to print money in some regards and maybe signalling further interest rate cuts across the Tasman.

"Investors are either going into equities or into property and there’s no reason for assuming we will be any different here in New Zealand, with more Chinese money - emerging economy money generally - looking for a home.

"The shortage of property continuing in New Zealand, the migration numbers into boom territory, almost, as well.”

A happy realisation

"So, I think we are going to have a lot of people realising that the market hasn’t collapsed  at all that: ‘Oh, right, this is again like late 08/09 when we are not seeing house prices fall 40% in New Zealand simply because a significant event has happened' – and that’s what this is – it’s a significant event.

"I think the data will be slightly messy but then we are going to be again basically ramping up [with the housing market] again through 2014."

Alexander therefore agreed with the proposition that there was likely to be a shock to the housing market sales figures this month, but that sales volumes and prices would pick up again next year.

“Prices go up. The fundamental for New Zealand hasn’t fundamentally changed in that there is a shortage of property.

"...In fact during the September quarter the number of consents issued for the new houses to be built in New Zealand fell by 3%. So, this supply and demand imbalance increases, it gets worse. And the first home buyers who were going to become property owners have to stay property renters for a bit longer – and that’s what the investors can see.

"So, the fundamental there is that unless something comes along and radically increases house supply in New Zealand in the near future – and nothing is going to come along – prices go up, end of story."

What sort of house price rises?

But what kind of price increase for houses in the next 12 months could we be talking about?

The RBNZ has talked about the LVRs knocking between 1 and 4 percentage points off house price inflation. If you take the mid-point of that range then it would be a 2.5 percentage point impact.

"So, if you take 2.5% off whatever was otherwise going to be the case, so, maybe you end up with a 10% capital gain in Auckland," Alexander said.

"Maybe it is going to be similar down in Christchurch as well. The rest of the country, generally – but not exclusively – it won’t be that much. It takes time for those gains in Auckland and in Christchurch to spread to other centres but generally, let’s guess something like about 10%.

"But I’ve never actually seen anybody with a model that accurately predicts house price increases. Best guess."

Alexander recently observed that the LVR limits were likely to turn more young New Zealanders into housing investors rather than owner/occupiers.

He said he recognised the sentiments of young people and recalled the feeling he had when he came back to New Zealand from overseas in 1987 and saw that house prices were rising quickly.

'You feel it in your gut'

"And you feel it in your gut, the need to get a foot on the ladder. You become fearful of missing out on buying the sort of house you want because the prices are rising so rapidly. So you need to do something basically to get yourself in there and rising along with all the other boats.

"If as a result of the new LVR rules you are not going to be able to buy the true first home that you wanted, that doesn’t mean that gut desire to get on the ladder has changed at all.

"I think you are going to be looking at something else, some other way of doing it.

"I think it is going to lead to a lot more people looking at inner city apartments in Auckland, predominantly we are talking about here, and people just looking at a lower priced property they’ve got the deposit for and they’ll rent it out as an investment.

"They’ll be hoping to make some capital gain, maybe some decent rental income and build their deposit over time though a combination of the rental income and the capital gain and then get the place that they truly want, you know 1,2,3,4,5 years or whatever down the track.

"There are no numbers on this at the moment and there will be no numbers in the future in that unlike Australia we don’t have data showing there are this many first home buyers out there and there are this many investors -  but generally I think that’s the trend we are looking at for a lot of young people."     

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51 Comments

Will you fall on your sword Tony if its still where it is? (give or take a little).

To get to 6.8% in 24months would mean an un-precidented solid and sustained recovery and that also means increased demand for oil. It also means that this has to be global, ie the world pulls us up as an exporter...Yet the Fed is saying  effectively 0% for what looks like 5 years. The EU seems to be saying similar....

So +/- 0.5% is way more likely.

But keep telling us +2% like the bank economists have been for 5~6 years now, bound to be right eventually eh?

Or maybe not, have a look at Peak Oil. Understand how energy drives the growth in our economy. 

regards

 

 

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Tony is just saying it is a possibility that interest rates could go up a lot more than what people expect - why should he fall on his sword?

Peak oil may affect the world economy (although I still think society will evolve to get energy from other sources), but that doesn't mean that NZ's economy can't do better than others in the world and grow. 

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"although I still think society will evolve to get energy from other sources"

Anadarko have just begun deep sea oil drilling off the coast of Raglan and there are plenty more on the horizon. I suppose this "society" won't be investing in alternative energy...

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because it could also go down.
He's there trying to talk the market around, about time these public figures started to held to the public message they're selling.    Everyone else has to stand by their product and brand.

 

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I think Wheeler may look through the Christchurch rebuild to an extent, but it looks like there will be a lot of building in Auckland too and if dairy prices remain high inflation will be high regardless of Christchurch

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Prices go up. The fundamental for New Zealand hasn’t fundamentally changed in that there is a shortage of property.

 

And of course a wall of cheap foreign wholesale money to call upon at damn near zero rates if we are to believe the Fed, ECB and BOJ.

 

The prognosis is blunt - buy now or face the consequences of an already overgeared  property rout.

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Another 10% for Auckland in 2014.

Why would anyone get a real job?

Although peak oil is always lurking, not to mention the possibility of a devastating goat bubble.

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Why would anyone get a real job?

 

One cannot afford such a pastime while our leaders and their voting supporters endorse diluting the means of rewarding time spent. An absolutely hopeless situation guaranteed to return humanity to the Stone Age.

 

 

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"Why would anyone get a real job" Is selling RE a real job..?

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I hadn't considered effects of a goat bubble. Something else to worry about.

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Should I be buying goats?

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No. When the the lay public are just learning about goats, it's already too late! Sold my pygmy last month $$$.

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We all try to predict the future rates of interest, but we are clearly not good at it.   Basically it's a lottery.

Rates could just change, or not, or maybe a lot.  But the point is well made that there is a risk and current naive borrowers are at risk.  Some suicidally so.

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Some though are clearly far worse than others at predicting.  Just where have the rises been in 5~6 years? Does the world outlook look better or worse than 5 or 6 years ago? If its the same (poor) or worse then the predictions of rises by "qualified" vested interests look unfounded and in-competant at best. 

regards

 

 

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The world outlook obviously looks a lot better than 5 years ago. The US is looks a lot better, we haven't had a melt down in Europe for a while, the UK is growing, China still doing OK. Wouldn't say its all rosy and I wouldn't say it won't go backwards, but the prospects for world growth seem reasonably good at the moment. 

You would be a fool to assume NZ is not going to grow and assume interest rates will stay low, and you would be a fool to assume NZ is guaranteed to grow.

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You may be interested in this report 

http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/parl-support/research-papers/00PLEco10041/the-next-oil-shock

Basically says when world economy starts to recovery demand for oil will increase due to peak extraction oil prices will spike like in 2008 causing economy to go back into recession.  

Here is a link to world oil prices showing you prices before 2008 meltdown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crude_oil_prices_since_1861.png

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"Some though are clearly far worse than others at predicting."...  Indeed. 

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Long term have shot up.

From 5.5% for 5 years in April to over 7% for 5 years now.

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Actually - I think Fat Tony may have picked the bottom of long term rates to the exact week.

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US sovereign T10 interest rates visited their recent yield low more than a year ago. View here  NZ borrowing rates were bound to catch up.

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He is certainly in a  better position  to judge the direction of the yield curve than most of us  .

But, I  think he is calling it too soon becasue :

  • The RBNZ cannot have the Kiwi$ strengthen any more which higher rates will do
  • A higher Kiwi has already masked any underlying ( Imported) inflation by keepig fuel prices in check for example.
  • A higher Kiwi$ will smack our domestic export businesses and tourism , we will be "priced out"
  • The NZ banks still rely on foreign fund flows, so their costs of borrowing are low with all the  QE money about

 

This notwithstanding , there is little evidence to suggest Interest rates in the US or Eurozone , or Japan will increase anytime soon .

It therefore becomes academic as the whether the OCR goes up or not,  when banks WACC ( weighted avaerage cost of capital) has foreign funding at close to  zero% in the mix.

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I dont agree on his position unless we can see his reasoning and judge its considered all the relevant facts, then yes sure his opinion could be persuasive.  So he seems to be ignoring the effects of energy costs and debt on the world wide economy when he thinks we'll have a decent recovery and a significant OCR will rise.  Note he and other bank economists have been doing so for 6 years and have been proven wrong time and time again over this period, so are you really taht willing to trust them? Im certainly not.

Fuel prices, yes a high exchange rate is masking however fuel is an essential overhead. By this I mean if the price rises you have to pay it and that means you do not buy something else. The net difference with no more income is zero inflation, if you are lucky.  

So as an example you still buy say 40 litres per week of petrol. With inflation the wages and numbers of ppl associated with the delivery of the fuel has not changed, yet you pay more.   For the areas that now dont get sales as there is no money left, they lose profits, maybe make losses and even lose jobs, tahst deflationary.  Hence when we see the net CPI at 1% we are lucky we have not tipped into downright deflation IMHO.  Now if our exchange rate drops then petrol will go up and that might well help drive us even further down.

regards

 

 

 

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I've noticed a few times when a bank economist makes this type of prediction it scares people into fixing their mortgages, then rates actually drop and the banks clean up.

 

 

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I had similar thoughts Bob.

And given the other stories of where interest rates are going to stay in the US and the ECB it would be near on impossible for the RBNZ to increase rates.

 

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A common mis-conception, banks make more on floating rates, it's easier to preserve their margins.  Fixed rates involved a lot more guessing on their part, they don't always fund the loan for it's full fixed interest period up front. 

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Depends if they can frighten a bunch of people in signing up for higher fixeds before a drop.

Used to be I'd get a phone call from my bank near re-fix time.
Then after I got burnt a couple of times, I noticed they only called me when the rate board was about to drop - when it was about to lift, strangely enough they didn't feel the need to call me....

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The banks have said that the OCR bears little relation to what they can borrow at, so sure the OCR can drop more, but if the banks cant borrow at a lower rate they cant drop the mortgage rate...and that politically is bad for them. So its hardly surprisiing they push fixed...its in their interest...(oops).

regards

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Yes.......the likes of Tony always have agenda's to push

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If you had listened to Fat Tony early this year you would now be in a nice mix of majority long term 5 year @5.5% and small portions on sub 5% short term and floating.

Relaxed.

The Tony is worth a listen, is all I'm sayin'

SK/FT

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Whether you are listening to Tony or not, it pays to be cautious.  Dad taught me from an early age to save for the rainy days.  For me personally, that rainy days had benn and gone many times for me when interest rates got over 8%

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5 year have never been offered at 5.5% this year. Not carded anyway.  Would need to be in a pretty strong position to neg. that sort of rate.  I locked in 5.95% for 5 years last year during an olympic special, and took up a 4 year at 5.95% this year where I got a free TV which I sold for $900 and deducted from my intererest expense over the 4 year period to make it effectively a 5.7% fixed over 4 years....

Always more upside risk than downside risk, stupid not to lock a decent portion away for 4-5years as insurance given the fact that no one can predict the future.

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Yes but who pays carded?!

I agree - its risk management - picking tops and bottoms is a mugs game.

 

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Yes risk management SK. Greedy Mach wants to stay on short term at 4.95%. Fortunately risk averse Mach overruled so a few months ago I locked in a fair chunk at 6% for 5 years. I can afford 6% without breaking a sweat. 7%, 8% and up and I'll be sweating. Even locking in long term rates where they are now now would annoy me and they are only going one way. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

*Tips hat to Mr Alexander.

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Hope you're around over the next few years so we can see how our different approaches play out

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You do better listening to me instead of a bank economist with all kinds of incentives to let you pay more.

 

I am independent. :-)

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better still, listen to mum - she knows everything!

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Sorry xingmowang, but truly with respect from an observer, whats does independent mean ?  Independent and better informed, or independent and ignorant or the facts and suspicious of motives ?  Personally I have no concerns about Tony's motives/independece, or frankly any other NZ economists, but like any forecaster including themselves, we and they know that they can be wrong despite good intentions. I question others who think they know more

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What inflation?

From the dairy payout flow on effects that are theoretically going to bring billons into our communities? (do we need it interest-grabbed away before it can be enjoyed/used)

From government and auckland local government penalising their tax payers to pay a "living wage" which will force costs up?

From Foreign buyers pushing the auckland property market up, with their foreign sourced funds?

'Cause last time I checked not many peoples pay packets were "inflating" at all!!!!

 

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Tony is wrong.................again.....concerning the OCR. Bank interest rates however.........he may be on the ball as they will need to up their rates because the LVR's will stop the bottom feeding of this gigantic pyramid that puts the ancient Egyptians to shame

Under this BS fiat system.......growth means tolerance of more debt

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BNZ has just dropped its rate for a 3 year fixed mortgage to 5.99%. Interest rates more likely to go down over next 12 months given the state of the US and European economies. NZ banks now competing hard for customers with at least 20% equity so negotiate for a better than carded rate. Some banks will even pay you $5,000 to move your business to them!

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now that the Chinese have cracked the market with a foreign office, I wonder if we'll see some EU and US banks with their poor revenue performances and ultra-cheap rates introducing some NZ market competition?

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When the next crash comes & the dollar dies, GFC 2008 was just a pre-tremor, then interest rates will really go into emergency mode.   OCR = .5

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Yes...well maybe, in terms of will it matter. It maybe we all see the OCR as moot, no one will want to borrow to invest no matter the rate.

So 0.25% ~ 1% whatever...even 0%, I mean when this goes wrong no $ will be safe anywhere unless you can lend it to a mug that will repay it in full.

Good that gold is dropping as the gold sparkees fizzle out...it might yet be a good buy...

regards

 

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Well got myself an 8.6% fixed mortgage nearly 8 years ago because hey, interest rates at that time could not go any lower, right ? Well it was good for a few years then rates went to historic lows. The reality is we are a tin pot small country that is subject to the global economy and it doesn't take much to upset the apple cart in NZ. The prospect of higher rates then even 8.6% no longer bothers me, its all relative to how much you have borrowed but at the time double figures would have killed me and it could do the same to a large number of overcommited individuals paying off multiple or expensive houses and usually other luxury toys like cars. I have my fingers crossed for the status quo because a major crash is not going to do anyone any good, the bad luck simply flows on to the entire community.

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Interest rates aren't rising. Nice for 'experts' to give the populace a wind up, but banks are actually dropping rates as they can't lend out as much under the LVR.

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All dependant on what timeframe one chooses of course.

But, acording to this graph of average mortage rates, every fixed rate from 6 months through to 5 years is on average higher than it was this time last year.

http://www.interest.co.nz/charts/interest-rates/mortgage-rates

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Well cherry pick a bit then. 

;]

Take an 24 month snapshot of that graph, still down on 2010. The trend up is hardly disernable, on top of that if those still floating (like me) had fixed 2 or 3 years ago we'd have paid out a few thou in extra payments by now.  I think my extra would have been $4k...

Yet with the FED locked into permanent QE and aiming for a long term unemployment down a lot I cant see much happening to the long term trend for say 5 years.  A lot depends on whether we see a big bad event or not of course. If overseas investors stop lending to us then our rates might do a Greece even with the OCR at <1%....that would be interesting to say the least.

 I think the RB said that the expected peak in the OCR is <5%?  in which case being some years away fixing any time soon seems pricey.  Though its interesting that quite a few PIs in here seem to have fixed....

regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sure, but 2 or 3 years ago there was not the same expectation by many that interest rates would soon rise.

Certainly not after the quake.

The topic of this thread is how some people may be caught out by  rate rises.

IE; the future, not the past.

 

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Bank economists have been warning of imminent rate rises for the last 3 or 4 years. Westpac warned of a sudden & steep rise 23 months ago.

Sure recent history is not an accurate predictor of trends  ...  but we seem to be in a very different economic & financial era from 1980 - 2008. 

What is the new 'normal' - non-stimulatory rate level?  One could argue that our current 2.5% doesn't seem to be stimulating much -  only the Auckland property market & even then this may be due to foreign demand not local rates. 

 

 

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Which is an interesting event I dont think anyone predicted.

Good news also that there appears to now be some risk adjustment in rates ie if you have a small mortgage, pay less.

regards

 

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Hugh, it's usually those whom have a an interest in the status quo that always deny the imbalances. Those of us in the structural camp always prevail in the end. We might be wrong for the next 1,2,3,4 or 5 years. I just hope for everyone's sake there is an orderly exit when there is finally a wider acceptance that things must change.  

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