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She was 'appalled' he was reappointed without an independent review, so how will likely incoming Finance Minister Nicola Willis get on with RBNZ Governor Adrian Orr?

Banking / opinion
She was 'appalled' he was reappointed without an independent review, so how will likely incoming Finance Minister Nicola Willis get on with RBNZ Governor Adrian Orr?
orr
Adrian Orr, by Jacky Carpenter.

As the new National-led government assumes office, a fascinating area to watch will be the relationship between the new Finance Minister and Governor of the Reserve Bank.

Whilst in opposition Nicola Willis, expected to be Minister of Finance, was highly critical of the Reserve Bank's performance, aggressively challenging its Governor Adrian Orr in select committee hearings.

Labour's Grant Robertson reappointed Orr to a second five-year term last November despite opposition concerns. Orr's term began in March this year and runs until 2028, which is beyond the next election.

National leader Christopher Luxon had called for an independent review of the Reserve Bank's performance during 2020 and 2021 before Orr was reappointed. When Graeme Wheeler quit as Reserve Bank Governor after one term in 2017, the then-National government appointed Grant Spencer Acting Governor for six months through the election period. This enabled Robertson to appoint Orr after the Labour-led government took office.

Willis declared herself "appalled" Orr's reappointment came without an independent review of the Reserve Bank’s performance, saying the following:

"In recent years, Adrian Orr as the Chair of the Monetary Policy Committee signed off on an extraordinary programme of money printing and cheap lending that pumped tens of billions of dollars into the economy."

"That programme directly contributed to house prices rising 28% in one year, inflation rising to a 32-year high, and record bank profits. New Zealanders now suffering through a cost of living crisis are owed some answers. Was a more careful monetary policy approach warranted? Has the Bank fulfilled its mandate? Did Orr get it wrong?"

“The Government’s refusal to even ask these questions shows contempt for the New Zealand public. It’s not enough for the Minister of Finance to lean on the endorsement of the board he helped appoint. He should have kicked-off a thorough external review to satisfy himself and New Zealanders that the Bank did the best it could have. Instead, he has directly shied away from any semblance of accountability. The ‘ask no questions’ approach is unacceptable."

For his part Orr said in August he had no plans to quit, should the election usher in a new government. At that time Willis reiterated a National-led government would require the central bank to have its Covid-era decision-making independently reviewed, but said she respected the independence of the Reserve Bank and wouldn’t make any assessments of individuals until that review was completed.

The Reserve Bank did commission a review itself of its monetary policy. This concluded it should've started tightening monetary policy sooner than it did. Willis described this as "the Reserve Bank's marking of its own homework."

Following the weekend's election the scene is thus set for what at the very least will be an interesting relationship between Orr and his new Minister.

Whilst much is made by politicians of the Reserve Bank's independence, they both appoint the Reserve Bank's Governor and make, and change, the laws it operates under. They may also question its actions, should they choose to. Notably the then-Prime Minster John Key expressed scepticism about the Reserve Bank's potential use of loan-to-value ratio (LVRs) restrictions on low equity home loans before these were introduced in 2013.

Change in the pipeline

One change National has pledged to make is to end the Reserve Bank's dual monetary policy mandate, by removing the focus on supporting maximum sustainable employment, introduced by Robertson in 2018, and refocusing it back solely on fighting inflation.

And an area of potential tension between the new government and the Reserve Bank could be if the prudential regulator looks to enforce debt-to-income ratio (DTI) restrictions on banks' mortgage lending. A so-called macro-prudential tool like LVR restrictions, DTI limits are calculated based on a simple ratio of borrower debt divided by borrower income. They fall under the Reserve Bank's financial stability, rather than monetary policy, remit.

The Reserve Bank would only consider introducing DTIs if the currently soft housing market took off again. It spent several years trying to get a DTI tool added to its macro-prudential Memorandum of Understanding with the Minister of Finance, but was thwarted by both National and Labour governments until gaining support from Robertson in June 2021 as the housing market ran rampant. Even that came with the caveat the design and implementation of such a restriction "will have regard to avoiding negative impacts, as much as possible, on first home buyers."

The Reserve Bank has indicated it could have a DTI tool for lenders to use on borrowers taking out home loans ready to go from March 2024, should it wish to enforce it. The central bank is required to consult with the Minister of Finance and the Treasury "from the point where macro-prudential intervention is under active consideration, and will inform the Minister and the Treasury prior to making any decision on deployment of a macro-prudential instrument."

Willis & National not enthused by DTIs

Interest.co.nz asked Willis in April whether as Finance Minister she would allow the Reserve Bank to implement a DTI tool, or want it removed from the macro-prudential tool kit.

"I haven’t had a chance to look at the latest information from the Reserve Bank on that. We’ll study that carefully. Our concern has always been not to choke off New Zealanders wanting to access the homebuying market. We want home ownership to increase and the problem with those kinds of instruments is that they can lock a whole generation out of the housing market and that would concern us," Willis said.

In a November 2021 press release, National's then Shadow Treasurer Andrew Bayly, said Labour must rule out DTIs.

“DTI limits would impose artificial restrictions on the amount banks can lend to home buyers based on their income. To anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of how banking works, the outcome of such a rule should be obvious - the first people banks will cut lending to are those on low incomes, making it even harder than it already is for first home buyers to get onto the property ladder," Bayly said.

“The Government is supposed to be making things easier for first home buyers, not harder."

As part of a coalition agreement ACT leader David Seymour could potentially become Finance Minister. Seymour has also been highly critical of the Reserve Bank and Orr, having said last year he wouldn't reappoint Orr to a second term.

Despite their reservations, unless a review they commission of the Reserve Bank's monetary policy performance is especially damning, it seems unlikely the new government would sack Orr. Given he's now in the early stages of a second five-year term, forcing him out could potentially involve a substantial payout given Orr's $850,000 to $860,000 annual pay. That's not something the governing parties, who have attacked government spending and perceived waste under Labour, would probably want.

Orr could resign if he believes the relationship is untenable. However, you have to think he'd be unlikely to do that, at least until victory could be declared in the war on inflation. My best guess is that Orr, whilst a larger than life idiosyncratic character, will look to cut his cloth to suit his new masters. After all, when he signed up for a second five-year term he knew a change of government was possible. 

Prior to taking the reins at the Reserve Bank Orr was CEO of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund for 10 years. This period included the election of a National-led government in 2008 which stopped making contributions to the Super Fund.

Speaking to interest.co.nz in 2015, Orr suggested the Government could both resume contributions to the Super Fund, and stop taxing it for the benefit of future generations. Whilst lobbying publicly for change, he headed up the Super Fund through the entire term of the John Key and Bill English-led government.

National's relationship with Key & property sector could also be in focus

Luxon and Willis, meanwhile, will need to manage perceptions around their relationship with Key closely. Former National Party leader and Prime Minister Key, of course, is now Chairman of the country's biggest bank, ANZ NZ. Its key regulator is the Reserve Bank.

Willis was a senior advisor to Key during his first term in government, and much has been made of Luxon's admiration for Key. Key supported Luxon's successful bid for National's leadership in 2021 when Luxon said he spoke fairly often with Key. During the recent election campaign Key told The Post Luxon "might ring up if he wants to have an independent view, or he wants to sound something out, or he just wants light relief from something else."

National will also need to be wary of perceptions around its relationship with the property sector, which can be significantly impacted by Reserve Bank monetary policy and financial stability decisions. RNZ recently reported property industry interests as the biggest donor to political parties since 2021, with National the main beneficiary followed by ACT and NZ First.

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39 Comments

Agree or disagree with him, the RBNZ Governor must be independent of the Government.

If the two go hand-in-hand then the RBNZ will turn to shit. We simply cannot have the RBNZ subject to political pressure of who is in charge at the time.

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He’s hardly been independent of Labour! 

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Actually thought the independence looked quite healthy under Labour. It was clear that Robertson and Orr didnt agree.

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That would be a lovely change, indeed

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This is great. It shows that Nicola Willis does in fact see that rampant house price increases are a bad thing. Does that mean the house prices dropping heavily is a good thing? Has anyone asked her?

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She says this while at the same time the National party receives donations from property investors wanting special treament to pump prices up again - and with the intention of introducing policies that will be beneficially towards those donerrs and property prices.

The political system is actually highly corrupt in this nation (an across the west to be honest) if you really think about it.

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Huge amount of donated money from the property sector, AND huge amount of personal investment in property on the part of National MPs. They have their own personal property portfolio wealth to pump. Massive conflict of interest - I personally believe we should be regarding it as corruption when the put in policy to benefit their own portfolio wealth.

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The NACT have already said (via Willis) "We want home ownership to increase...".

As the best way to do that is to make houses affordable - So she's actually said she's fine with houses continuing to fall in price.

Sorry NACTs - logic is a bitch. ;-)

There are other ways to increase home ownership, of course. But with the exception of increasing incomes and forcing house prices to stagnate, all require state intervention that the NACTs will never do because it means giving something to poor people that rich people have to pay for (and never got themselves. No. Wait. They did. Shush. Let's not mention that. Better to pull the ladder up now so the Ne'er-do-wells can't climb it.)

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Yip amazes me how politicians are willing to lie to their constituents - and they aren't even in government yet!

It at least took Adern a few years before she had the same issue where she wanted house prices to keep going up but also for them to become affordable as well (at which point I decided she was no better than John Key - happy to corrupt himself for power).

We created a society where everyone thinks they can win and nobody needs to sacrifice for a better tomorrow. And people don't know when they have enough already to make the issue/s even worse.

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It at least took Adern a few years before she had the same issue where she wanted house prices to keep going up but also for them to become affordable as well 

I still remember when she said this and was completely dumbfounded. What kind of fantasy is it that existing h'holds get to benefit for price appreciation yet FHB'ers get affordable housing that I assume experiences price appreciation like the expectations sold to them at the water cooler and by Granny Herald? It doesn't make any sense.

It was at that moment I knew she was a fraud and an incarnation of the Pied Piper. And to be honest, I was one of the suckers who thought she authentically and sincerely wanted change. 

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Having worked in Wellington I can understand her predicament - but realise that at this point she was no longer a leader but a puppet for the ministries.

Just saying what she is briefed to say and not what she campaign on and wanted.

i.e. it was the point that she broke as a leader and the system had corrupted her character - same at John Key.

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Just saying what she is briefed to say and not what she campaign on and wanted.

I hear you. At least I can pat myself on the back and be comforted by the fact that I will not succumb to cult of personality. You can hardly say that about her loyal retainers and followers.    

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One has to already be weak in character and integrity to be corrupted by the system?

John Key, the "smiling assassin" ponytail puller. Smile and wave, spout great rhetoric to please the punters but was always in it for his own ego. You'd think coming from a state home background he would have had a better understanding. 

Jacinda, was she groomed by her time in the Klaus Schwab led youth leader group/cult? Interesting stories from locals I know in the Morrinsville area too.

This isn't to attack either one of them as people. I research developments in psychology, especially the link between childhood upbringing, adverse events and trauma, epigenetics, maladaptive behaviours, "personality" traits, narcissism etc and the development of self identity.

It's easy to understand that restrictive religious upbringings, a fatherless environment and various other factors can all play a part in the development of the adult. One can be highly susceptible to external influences if they don't develop a core sense of self at an early age.

It's an area I think more understanding is required by our policymakers when it comes to education, crime, mental health, employment, welfare...

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So many of us were sucked in by Jacinda’s promises. She had crazy support and goodwill at the peak. Now I’m absolutely cynical of the pending government…so they’ll probably do okay to prove me wrong🤔

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And yet she trots out the same but opposite lie that Bridges used to justify LVR:

2014: LVR will make purchasing easier for fhb.

2023: DTI will make purchasing harder for fhb.

Both are blatant lies, and both from team blue.

FFS Willis, I have a full time job that doesn't involve looking over the RBNZ documents yet have managed to - but the incoming finance minister whose actual job is to read these things hasn't had time to?

If RBNZ aren't willing to put in a meaningful DTI (and current discussion document suggests not) then interest rates are going to have to do the heavy lifting.

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Nicola Truss doesn't look very solid at all.

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There's another way to make houses "affordable" while still inflating prices to the benefit of those already on "the ladder"..

Multi-generational lending. This is something that the conservatives in the UK openly want. 50 year + terms with the ability to pass on debt to ones children. 

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Neofeudalism. Crazy. Time to rock out the guillotines at that point.

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Labour & the Greens wanted the same thing and the latter, at least, weren't too shy about eviscerating home-owners' equity if they had to.  The market had other ideas.

 

I think any political party's comments about boosting homeownership should be seen as much the same as buying more hip replacements.  It's something that's trotted out regularly because it's popular, but they recoil from the trade-offs that are needed to make it happen.  

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Well done, Gareth.

Imperative to get this history known.

1. The MPC & Orr have a case to answer with regards excessively loose monetary policy through covid.

2. The NACT will need to prove their case that DTIs must be scrapped.

I expect the NACT will use 1. to avoid having to do 2. I.e. Orr goes, as do DTIs.

Most of NZ simply won't notice. Or care. We're not that bright, are we?

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Pure rhetoric. Orr will quietly see his term out without incident. The worst that might happen is that they might write a letter stating that they'd like lower inflation however I doubt they'll even do that as they want to be seen as pro-housing.

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They have other levers.  The Board is stacked with people appointed by Robertson.  They'll soon be replaced with competent people.  

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"Our concern has always been not to choke off New Zealanders wanting to access the homebuying market"

Well I guess either the RBNZ choke them off, or the bank chokes them for a lazy 30. Either way its a Michael Hutchence moment.

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At a more casual level my favourite example has always been a radio interview then-Governor Don Brash did in 2003, the transcript of which the Bank chose to publish, in which there is a snippet that runs as follows:

Brash: ….we were concerned……we were running risk of inflation coming in above 2 per cent which is the top of our target

Interviewer: And then you’d lose your job?

Brash: Exactly right.  Link

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If the NZ Super Fund deserves tax free status why not Kiwisaver - both in returns & in contributions?

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Absolutely for contributions - why does my employer have to pay 33% of their contribution as tax, immediately cutting their effective contribution to 2%?

I thought I read somewhere that KiwiSaver was designed to be a revenue vehicle for the government.

And why souldn't the Superfund be paying tax on investments, just like everyone else does?

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If it weren’t taxed and you are close to retirement you would funnel as much money into KiwiSaver as possible. Wouldn’t it just become a tax avoidance fund? Who would make up for all that tax no longer paid?

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Broaden the tax base instead of overtaxing productive work.

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Superfund is supposed to be us putting money away today to fund tomorrow's liabilities. If dilutes the purpose if we keep syphoning off tax.

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Meanwhile the property industry, seem to have no issue celebrating their new found easy access to ministers and policy making.

'Everyone involved in real estate is very happy at the moment' - https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/300989266/everyone-involved-i…

Article on stuff went live at 10pm on election night (!!)

 

 

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Received my obligatory "Post Election Property Update" email from Ray White.  

The recent election result has seen National in a position to form the next government, potentially alone with the Act Party.

Although nearly 20 per cent of the total election vote is yet to be counted (special votes and final results are expected to be announced on November 3), we could see additional input from potential coalition partner New Zealand First, with concessions to the proposed policy outlined in the link below.

Despite the possibility of additional input, National and Act broadly agree on requirements of housing policy, so we don’t expect significant changes to current proposals.

We've created a summary (linked below) with the top 5 policies that may affect the property market, your property value, or your property decision in the near future.
 

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Wow, donations from the property sector look more and more like payments for policy and services.

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Again, the rich will get ritcher.

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The best time for a DTI was the late 90's, early 2000's. Nobody realises/remembers that Clark/Cullen tax policies triggered an inflow into property, and the industry is still driven by tax avoidance and other people's money mantras.

If they want to attack wasteful spending maybe they could start here. I don't begrudge anyone being reasonably compensated for their services. I do have an issue with those demanding austerity from others and not leading by example. 

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350088591/more-20-mps-rent-back-th…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-nanaia-mahuta-michael-wood-…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-mps-and-their-perks-salary-free-tr…

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300960756/politicians-set-for-a-pa…

Maybe a better way of removing conflict of interest is required

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/re…

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High immigration since 2003 caused mass inflow.

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DTIs are off the table. Guaranteed. 

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I really don't think you can guarantee anything Mr Muldoon. Luxon is carrying on like he will ace these negotiations. He's about to be Winnied. He needs to Seymour clearly.

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"Appalled"...?? Talk about projecting your own expectations onto others...! Bet she's fun to be around...

Sounds like A-class school yard projection happening,

And reality is - if its not law or policy - then personal projections and expectations are irrelevant and simply gaslighting

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I thought the DTI tool was a really good one, it contributed positively to prudential lending practices in our banking sector as a whole and choked credit supply to an extent that could have helped suppress house-price inflation.  But Willis could be right too.  As we turn on the taps to migrants (again), it'd have no effect on cashed up buyers and some investors.  Wrt the latter, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact there are other tools that can and are brought in to play and many / most investors rely on access to credit.

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